Ranged in 5.1

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

As far as i played frontlines i did not see samurais making a giant difference. I guess its just balancd.
Dragoon and ninja on the other hand...
I think rangeds should get a 2k hp buff and melee should have 5 or 10% deffensive taken away. I dont see much problems with tanks.

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With regards to frontlines, speaking very generally here:

NIN is low risk, high reward
DRG is low risk, reasonable reward
MNK is high risk, high reward
SAM is low risk, low reward


When you play melee in FL, you are basically always evaluating what you can get away. Like, OK getting this completely isolated player is simple enough, but can we pounce upon a healer or something that is just a little over-extended? For NIN and DRG it is very easy to get in, very easy to get out. Like with DRG we literally get to cancel Holmgang on a 30 sec CD. With MNK, we have a shorter gap-closer than DRG in exchange for being stickier in-combat, we have no exclusive escapes, and no ranged attack to build resources or stay safely engaged. When MNK carries a game, it is usually a very scrappy environment where melee is always on-top of the enemy and then MNK burst is out of control, making it the most inconsistent as far as scenario and battleground is concerned. SAM on the other hand, while of course all melee have decent blowup to varying degree, I find the way SAM taxes healers doesn't translate as well to FL. At the very least the movement action is more versatile and the defensive CD scales with pressure.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I'm brand new to PvP. I'd say that's an excuse. Lol. I have to learn. Which is why I came here. No need to be a jerk about it.

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I have some advises for you:

Take Arm's Lengthen and Fetter Ward, do not pick Feint and Bloodbath and ignore backstep.
You can move when casting Midare Setsugekka as the action will be register by the server when cast bar is at 50% (0.5s). You will not getting interrupt and able to follow up with Tsubame-gaeshi
Chiten is not really that useful as someone claim it to be as the animation is too noticeable. It also only parry 5 attacks and most people would stop attacking when they see the animation. This is why you are taking Arm's Lengthen to co-use with Chiten. Arm's Length is better in large scale as it is a duration action and applies to to all targets that is attacking you.
Chiten is last resort and should not rely on it. It is much weaker than Monk's new Riddle of Earth and Ninja's new Shukuchi
Enpi is your distance control.

Just keep in mind that Samurai is weakest among four close range jobs as it is not ideal for mass scale PvP (Chiten is not sustainable as Riddle of Earth and Shukuchi; not even par with Dragoon's backflip that can break free from Holmgang) ps. may need a correction on this.
You need to be smarter and pay attention to the surrounding; in another word, better situation awarness.
Never use lock in target function.
Your strength is your short term burst where Samurai is the best among 4 but your sustain damage is only better than Ninja.
Do not try to take on skilled Monk because once their sustain + burst will outlast you in encounter is longer than 60s.

I hope this will helps you in the Frontline

It is also interesting to see why English players believed Ranges are weak while Japanese players thinks Ranges are too strong (especially Black Mage)

フィースト強ジョブ
・メレー部門:侍モ竜
・ヒラ部門:占
・タンク部門:ナ戦暗
・レンジ部門:黒

Jobs that strong in Feast:
Meele: Samurai, Monk, Dragon
Healer: all
Tank: Paladin, Warrior, Knight
Range: Black Mage

シールロック、氷強ジョブ
・メレー部門:存在価値なし
・ヒラ部門:占
・タンク部門:全て
・レンジ部門:黒踊

Jobs that Strong in Seal Rock and Shatter:

Meele: no reason to exist
Healer: Ast
Tank: All
Range: Dancer and Black Mage

制圧、RW強ジョブ
・メレー部門:忍
・ヒラ部門:占
・タンク部門:どれでもいい
・レンジ部門:黒

Jobs strong in Secure and Rival Wing:
Meele: Ninja
Healer: Ast
Tank: ANy
Range: Black Mage

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Jobs that Strong in Seal Rock and Shatter:

Meele: no reason to exist
Healer: Ast
Tank: All
Range: Dancer and Black Mage

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Hyperbole aside, I do agree melee is a little tricky on Shatter. I do like having a few melee on every alliance for objective damage and I think DRG's superior midrange game lets them still perform well, though I can see why someone might feel they are weaker on that map.

Their proposed opinion on Seal Rock however is a bit strange. With the exception of a few nodes (namely the coast) I think the objective type and layout is great for melee. In general melee wants a lot of terrain features that either make it easy to corner the enemy or a lot of turns that obstruct line-of-sight, which Seal Rock has plenty of.

JP meta is different, that's why.

And BLM is stupid strong.

I think I'm going to switch up my PvP classes for my daily frontlines. I can use my Gunbreaker or something. Melee does seem to get shafted in the bigger battles. How is MCH? Weak compared to DNC and BLM?

And the lag... omg. My sound will cut out and my attacks will take several seconds to register at times in big fights.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I think I'm going to switch up my PvP classes for my daily frontlines. I can use my Gunbreaker or something. Melee does seem to get shafted in the bigger battles. How is MCH? Weak compared to DNC and BLM?

And the lag... omg. My sound will cut out and my attacks will take several seconds to register at times in big fights.

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Compared to those two? Yes
Weak overall? No, defensively could be better and there are better options. But weak isn't how I'd describe MCH. RDM is something I'd called weak.

Frontlines in JP is played differently from NA and EU.

Players are much more coordinated and there's often a 'push-pull' effect between the three GC's when engaging in combat. Whereas, NA and EU players tend to sit and defend objectives... basically 'let them fight' mentality, including much more individualism (or lack of cooperation) between teammates (or call outs are largely ignored).

In Mana DC, Seal Rock for example, you'll notice several matches with no communication in chat among players, yet they all tend to move together as one team. Sometimes you may have an experienced player making call outs, which I argue are very intelligent call outs... using waypoint markers to lead a GC to capturing tomeliths, or to outright IGNORE the tomeliths in favor of fighting another GC whenever it's much more advantageous (when the team has more momentum). Range DPS can make a difference in this style of gameplay, especially for dancer and black mage. In Shatter, sometimes big ice is ignored in favor of capturing bases and getting more kills. Whereas, in NA and EU, big ice is heavily emphasized, and players don't look at the bigger picture.

IMO, the gameplay for large scale PvP in the Japanese servers is much more developed than NA and EU. Which is why they can use BLM to great effect in Secure and Rival Wings, whereas players in NA and EU scratch their heads wondering 'how?'... It really is a different style of play, and IMO the Japanese meta is superior.

My recommendation to everyone here, if you haven't already, create an alt in a Japanese server, and play several matches of Frontlines. It will be an eye opener on how FFXIV's large scale PvP modes are played, as-well-as help you develop or improve your game.

This is just my opinion, and I feel I can't prove this point unless I can get an entire GC from Japan to play in an NA/EU match, and find out what the result would be. I hypothesize that it will be a one-sided match akin to an 8v8v8 with a premade vs. two other non-premade teams, in favor of the JP team that knows how to utilize range DPS to greater effect.

I could be wrong... bleh... but that's what I've observed thus far in Mana DC.

That's my two cents. XD

In terms of melee DPS for Frontlines, I feel that NIN and DRG are superior. SAM can also be strong, however it depends on who plays it.

MNK has a very fast and effective burst for Feast, but because of the lack of 'escape' or gap openers, it's vulnerable to being caught in Frontlines. Whereas, NIN, DRG, and SAM can gap close multiple times as-well-as escape to disengage (with Shukuchi, Soten, and Elusive Jump).

NIN and DRG have excellent 'kill steal' abilities with assassinate and high jump (or piercing talon... or mirage dive) to help build up battle high (thus more damage). Which is why you'll often find them at the top of the kill list in the end game results. For SAM, stealing kills is a little trickier. For MNK, I can play it well in Shatter where I can do big damage to ice and 1v1 (1v2 with no healer involved) against range DPS with no other opposing teammates to support my target... I think this is the best way to get kills with the job, the exception being that you're in a team with a good healer, where your survivability is improved.

MNK and SAM have some very effective bursts, and as such they're very strong in Feast. But for Frontlines, I tend to avoid MNK because of its lack of escape or disengage ability. SAM can be a great melee DPS to use in Frontlines, but I find it to be more work required to get battle highs (and I'm not very good at SAM to begin with). But it's not impossible. I've seen some excellent SAMs in Frontlines, just not many.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

JP meta is different, that's why.

And BLM is stupid strong.

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BLM is only strong if you know how to play it with team, 1v1 with anyone its getting rekt well at least when i catch them on my tanks they get obliterated. xD