Ranged in 5.1

**Shpy** · 11-05-2019 08:31 AM

Hey, i'm sure a lot of people already know that ranges are in a rough spot right now so i'm making this thread to give my ideas and opinions and even your inputs. For awhile now ranged jobs feel very squishy with their low health pool of 12.5k and literally getting one shotted even harder this patch due to to more invuln abilities, less CC, and healers aren't as strong as they used to be, there may be potions but people literally can't react to the sudden amount of damage coming out. So i feel ranged health pools should be bumped to 14.5k to help increase survivability. Another factor is within the kits of ranges this patch, with the recent addition of cone-aoe abilities which require you to be nearly into melee range to use these abilities such as quicknock, wither, and spread shot, etc. These abilities are very useful in these ranges kit and provide good utility but against plat-diamond players these abilities become completely useless or just get no use out of them at all because it would risk getting jumped and completely melting (Based on 5.1 scrims). My solution for this is to remove these aoes and replace them with new aoe abilities that can be used at max range like rain of death from bard. That's about it, if you have any more ideas to add to make ranged jobs better for next patch please reply below!

Basic Rundown of my ideas

-Buff ranged Hp to 14.5k

-Replace aoe abilities with aoes that can be used at max range

- Add in-kit CC

**Shpy** · 11-05-2019 08:35 AM

BRD 5.1

My Ideas & Suggestions including from the JP forums

-Army's Paeon will still buff teammates with reduced recast time and cast time expect ourselves, Repertoire will now give us faster recharge time E-arrow allowing for more dmg/pressure and help with the building of Apex instead of relying on quick nock.
This will make brd consistent between skill levels, even though with these changes they would most likely nerf Apex but we will have concentrate to compensate

-Army's muse will allow us to build apex faster with E-arrow, and allow us to fire more PPs especially since it was nerfed again.

- 10 song gauge for each fully stacked Pitch Perfect

- “Apex Arrow” Potency 1800 dmg
Song Gauge 50

-Repelling shot given two charges so the ability can be more flexible for either burst or building gauge

-E-arrow giving their third charge back and potency increased to 1k potency

This will allow bard to have flexible burst again like the rest of the ranged jobs, Provide zoning and CC and to also make up for lost dmg for when barrage and dots were removed.

I personally feel they should remove quick nock because it's very situational.

**Shinklet** · 11-05-2019 09:22 AM

I can't speak much for bard, that job just needs a little more complexity and power as a result of being slightly more complex but AoEs are fine.

If you want to do upwards of 4k+ damage with a single gcd and gain gauge faster, there needs to be a trade off for that, that trade off is putting yourself in a more vulnerable position and learning to position better as a result.

AoE shouldn't be max range, that would be incredibly broken, being able to sit at the 25yalm mark and consistently drop 4K aoes bombs, gcd after gcd.

Once melee get a well needed re-adjustment, probably a blanket nerf to feint and smite, range will be more comfy.

The safest, low skill job shouldn't have a low skill ceiling, learning to use AoE properly heightens that skill ceiling.

**Rumari** · 11-05-2019 09:46 AM

I switch between bard and dancer. With bard, quick nock is pretty much pointless. I don't know many who use it because you're dead after 1-2 uses. I'll use it if i find an opening to take advantage of and thats it. We're way way too squishy for it. Also Army's Paeon feels kind of pointless now. It used to be our one big burst with barrage but now its just filler until minuet comes back up. Unless im missing something since i've only done bard a small handful of times since the change (can't seem to get off healer in matches). I kind of like losing dots, kind of miss them as well. And I like being able to build Pitch Perfect faster. It was mind numbing how long it took before.

As for DNC again, like more then 50% of our moves are melee ranged abilities (big and small dance, fan dance 2, aoe combo) but we're so squishy its almost pointless to use any of them. Most people i know who play dancer don't bother with the AoE combo and work strictly with saber dance and fan dance 1/3 when the big/little dances aren't available. Don't get me started on the new recast timer of en avant. I get it, but i hate it lol.

**Nunca** · 11-05-2019 10:24 AM

Ranged HP needs to be buffed, that's for sure. What I believe OP is trying to say is give not cone AoEs, but ranged circle aoes. Which might be broken in some regards but then again, no one's complaining about Magical Ranged having the same thing with a gauge increase in RDM's case. I'm alright with having to go so close for an aoe - but it should feel rewarding to do so. Which in this current iteration it doesn't really feel like it when going that close is basically a death sentence anyway, using pots or not. For example (Can't talk about BRD but I can talk about MCH!): In 5.0 Autocrossbow was an cooldown. It had a 30 second cooldown, and if I found a good place to use it, it rewarded me with more gauge for the rest of the match. So when I hit 2+ people with it, therefore punishing them for grouping up so tightly, it /felt/ good. Especially since it wasn't spammable. You could say "well, isn't that what aoe currently does too?" In a way of speaking. You'd need to hit two targets consistently to make it even equal to what you'd get with your single target combo making it once again really useless. This problem is even more exaggerated for MCH in 5.1 - Auto Crossbow is 1400 pot compared to heat blast which is 1000 pot - an aoe ability is more potency than a single target one? Besides that you don't really get anything from using auto crossbow except that damage - You're putting yourself in a sketchy to potentially horrible position for 4.5 seconds, putting yourself in range of the melee/tank to swap to you for 4.5 secs, all for a bit extra damage with no real tangible gain. Using the aoe doesn't net me any extra gauge. Using the aoe doesn't buff me, Risking myself doesn't give me anything in return and it's so easy for someone to just get out of your 11y range during that 1.5s GCD, leaving you spamming your button for an extra sec when the person ends up out of the range. It just doesn't feel good to use.

Now I'd be okay with melee/tanks keeping their spammable aoes, but I really feel especially for physical ranged? It should just be a cooldown that gives gauge. That way it rewards me for not camping behind my team the entire game, and gives the enemy team an opportunity to jump on me if they're skilled enough to notice and swap. Ranged isn't a low skill job in any real regard, the current map has always stressed smart positioning. There's literally no reason why any one role should get insta-gibbed a lot of times even using pots and trying to use walls to escape just because "low-skill job btw". Not to mention if you're ranged and your team gets pushed back to spawn? There's literally nothing you CAN do aside from become a pinata full of medals. There's nowhere to run and not much of a way to defend yourself at the rate bursts come up now. Also for some reason casters can be at max range and use aoes. Make them go 11y to use aoe too while we're at it. God knows they have more survivablity tools than Phys Ranged does atm.

**Commander_Justitia** · 11-05-2019 05:37 PM

Just play melee. It's really fun to play right now, I wonder why

**Esmoire** · 11-05-2019 10:06 PM

I really don't like the insistence on having HP based on role. Like, can you balance the HP of a job like MCH, VS one that has mobility and self-healing like DNC? I can see other problems across other jobs where I feel the HP amounts don't really correlate well with their kits... like it's kind of fickle for a WAR to use Nascent Flash for example so that job should have more HP than the other tanks. I totally get the idea behind the role formula though I think they could have some design freedom by letting it go.

The alternatives, like the ones in this thread, that just try to adjust role HP or improve their kits to make up for their shortcomings, are fine as well. Just food for thought.

**Nedkel** · 11-05-2019 11:59 PM

These are balance measures they took in order to balance them out in frontlines.
Last expansion ranged were kings of pvp because it did not took much to harras others behind your team, majority of pvp in frontlines were either ranged or casters, melees were not as much playable, tanks also had it hard despite deffensive cooldowns and stuff.
Now melees at least could jump in and not insta when everyone focuses the closest target, SE came to this changes after experience they had earlier, they will not revert those changes, you as a ranged should be punished for poor positioning since you have range priviledge.

**Shpy** · 11-06-2019 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Nedkel

These are balance measures they took in order to balance them out in frontlines.
Last expansion ranged were kings of pvp because it did not took much to harras others behind your team, majority of pvp in frontlines were either ranged or casters, melees were not as much playable, tanks also had it hard despite deffensive cooldowns and stuff.
Now melees at least could jump in and not insta when everyone focuses the closest target, SE came to this changes after experience they had earlier, they will not revert those changes, you as a ranged should be punished for poor positioning since you have range priviledge.

Ranged were pretty balanced last patch but i'm primarily talking about feast since i did mention plat-diamond players, but seeing that you've played zero feast games you wouldn't understand what i'm talking about in this post anyway and just calling me privileged lol.

**Fannah** · 11-06-2019 01:00 AM

Nedkel just said you have the range priviledge, not to be priviledged overall.
In many games, being range means to need good positionning.

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