Monk Adjustment Feedback 5.1

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Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

See, that's why I wanted a real Monk's insight on the idea because, clearly, I am not. I have a hard time myself on the positions because my dps mains are Ninja and Dancer, so I don't really have to worry about those things that much. I will say, though, tying the actual GL4 to FoWind was a good idea due to the amount of moving needed to hit positionals.

While I do know Antaman can only gain its procs while in combat, but the skill itself can be used outside of it, which is why people are seeing about using the skill pre-pull while using outside programs to track server ticks to optimize the use of the skill. That is what I was talking about when SE will solve the problem by making it so that the skill can't be used unless while in combat. Honestly, I think, at this point, it should be a combo Form Shift Meditate skill so that's less buttons you have to hit during downtime, maybe replacing both skills when the skill is learned. I dunno.

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To be honest, FoW doesn't do anything for hitting positionals. The movement speed increase is so minimal that it's meaningless. Additionally when playing MNK you never wanna be like in the middle of the butt or flanks, you wanna be near the border for where flank becomes rear so you can just tap a or d to move to each.

Also I feel like there's some confusion with Anatman. It will not generate GL stacks unless you have hit the boss, therefore using it pre-pull would yield no benefit except that you've now screwed yourself out of a GL stack unless you wait on the CD. If it could be used prepull MNK would become the single most broken job in the game as you'd just go to GL4 before the pull and be starting the fight with 40% more damage and 20% haste and if that was the case everyone would love Anatman. The tick tracking is still viable depending on how things math out, my personal theory is that because Anatman is now a GCD it's worth it to do Shoulder Tackle > Anatman (using the tracker to get an instant tick) then holding it for a 2nd proc since you'd only clip your Coeurl form move by .6 seconds at most (we'll round up and say 1 second). Currently it's still a DPS gain to do Demo > Anatman > DK even if Anatman takes an entire server tick to proc. Considering you'd already done Demo your GCD has probably already cycled close to 1 second before you press Anatman meaning you may clip DK by around 1.5 seconds. The difference is that now we'd get GL3 out of clipping a GCD instead of just GL2. Though this also depends on raid buff alignment since clipping delays us and Anatman on the GCD is already pushing us back an entire GCD in our opener, so we'll just have to see how the rDPS averages out between solo anatman tick and dual tick.

Edit: I say "use anatman" as in it is actually benefiting us in some way, not that it is unclickable.

How much DPS do you lose by simply ignoring Anantman in the opener?

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

How much DPS do you lose by simply ignoring Anantman in the opener?

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I guess it's not "massive" but your only other alternative is to use Perfect Balance to get GL stacks somewhat quickly, but if you do that you're missing out on 3-4 Leaden Fists under some raid buffs (automatic 300 potency crits, usually anywhere from 28k-35k; Under maximum buffs I've hit like a 55k Bootshine). So you lose quite a bit of DPS on the opener by not using Anatman, Leaden Fist is just too powerful to not use PB as a spam tool for it.

Get rid of the elemental fists. Dear lord. Kill them and never let them return. Excise all mention of them from the game. They never existed as patch 5.whattheheckever. Get the writers to comb through the entire game's script to ensure that nothing slips through.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

How much DPS do you lose by simply ignoring Anantman in the opener?

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For low ping players,they lose a bit.
For high ping players,Using Anatman is only dps loss.
You know, server ticks + clipping = screwed.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

For low ping players,they lose a bit.
For high ping players,Using Anatman is only dps loss.
You know, server ticks + clipping = screwed.

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Inaccurate. Even with high ping Anatman was (is) still a DPS gain over PB for GL gain simply because Leaden Fist exists. PB allows us to get 3-4 Leaden Fists off under buffs whereas PB for GL means you get like 1 Leaden Fist under raid buffs. Leaden Fist is just that strong. Additionally, even if you don't use PB for GL gain, you're then losing 10% flat damage from the lack of that extra GL stack and it also puts your GL4 further behind which means less DPS as you aren't attacking as quickly or as hard.

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Originally Posted by ZyrinMisharuji

Inaccurate. Even with high ping Anatman was (is) still a DPS gain over PB for GL gain simply because Leaden Fist exists. PB allows us to get 3-4 Leaden Fists off under buffs whereas PB for GL means you get like 1 Leaden Fist under raid buffs. Leaden Fist is just that strong. Additionally, even if you don't use PB for GL gain, you're then losing 10% flat damage from the lack of that extra GL stack and it also puts your GL4 further behind which means less DPS as you aren't attacking as quickly or as hard.

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Do you understand what clipping means ? It mean as soon as I've got stacks from Anatman and try spamming other skills the server won't allow other skills to activate until almost 1 sec later while PB openner barely clip at all(still clipping around 0.x sec but Anatman is cleary longer)
Yes, Anatman is DpS gain IF you're not clipping it and be able to double weave Ogcd but sorry I can't do that.
I think I've explained enough, I'm the one suffer dps loss by default here.
Don't think every Monk can play smooth and double weave whenever they want.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

Do you understand what clipping means ? It mean as soon as I've got stacks from Anatman and try spamming other skills the server won't allow other skills to activate until almost 1 sec later while PB openner barely clip at all(still clipping around 0.x sec but Anatman is cleary longer)
Yes, Anatman is DpS gain IF you're not clipping it and be able to double weave Ogcd but sorry I can't do that.
I think I've explained enough, I'm the one suffer dps loss by default here.
Don't think every Monk can play smooth and double weave whenever they want.

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Even if you clip your GCD with Anatman currently, it's still a gain over PB. Once again Leaden Fist is too powerful to not use PB to spam it. It's way too much damage to give up. An approximate 1.5 second clip on your 2nd GCD is worth the massive burst you gain by using PB to spam DK > Bootshine. It's not even a double-weave thing because you've never double-weaved Anatman because it's too fickle.

With new anatman since it's on the GCD you only risk clipping your GCD by around .6 seconds as well. Still a massive gain over trying to use PB for GL gain and then only getting 1 Leaden Fist under buffs instead of 3-4.

They made such a big deal about GL4 being monk job progression and didn't even give it a new animation.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

They made such a big deal about GL4 being monk job progression and didn't even give it a new animation.

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MNKs: We don't wanna go slow. We want to be able to use TK.

SE: uhhhhhhh, here have GL4. Perfect. No one will complain now.