Change Enchanted Reprise's description

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

Would changing "Deals unaspected damage" to "Deliver an unaspected attack" be too much?

---

Yes. The term attack is a specific term used in tooltips to indicate physical damage. This can be seen in the unenchanted versions which deal physical damage and read as attacks in their tooltips. The enchanted versions are not attacks because they deal magical damage and as such do not read as such in their tooltips. This is a functional difference since buffs such as Embolden which provide a boost to our magical damage buff the enchanted version of these skills but not the unenchanted versions. The tooltips for our weaponskills are quite specific in their descriptions and cover everything that is needed to know about them very concisely and precisely.

The biggest problem for me is the icon because it looks like part of our melee rotation, perhaps change the color when enchanted?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Yes. The term attack is a specific term used in tooltips to indicate physical damage. This can be seen in the unenchanted versions which deal physical damage and read as attacks in their tooltips. The enchanted versions are not attacks because they deal magical damage and as such do not read as such in their tooltips. This is a functional difference since buffs such as Embolden which provide a boost to our magical damage buff the enchanted version of these skills but not the unenchanted versions. The tooltips for our weaponskills are quite specific in their descriptions and cover everything that is needed to know about them very concisely and precisely.

---

https://i.imgur.com/oREOK2h.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

https://i.imgur.com/oREOK2h.png

---

BLU has lots of weirdness to it. In particular, the physical and elemental damage type are an additional stat and actually matters. Did you want me to screenshot every ability from all the real jobs as counterpoint? /shrug

P.S. your screenshot of Flying Frenzy doesn't prove anything because it follows the same description that all jumping attacks have as well as being similar to all gap closer abilities. I'm not sure why you included it otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mhaeric

BLU has lots of weirdness to it. In particular, the physical and elemental damage type are an additional stat and actually matters. Did you want me to screenshot every ability from all the real jobs as counterpoint? /shrug

P.S. your screenshot of Flying Frenzy doesn't prove anything because it follows the same description that all jumping attacks have as well as being similar to all gap closer abilities. I'm not sure why you included it otherwise.

---

It's a comparison. Two abilities that should follow the same conventions, but don't.

Also, that's how logic works. You need only one counter example to show that all don't work that way. The post you pulled from shows others that don't fit the way people are saying the tooltips should write, such as why melee have "ranged attack" tooltips while the ranged are just 'attack' tooltips.

Your claim is that "attack" is all physical damage.

The screen shows otherwise.

There isn't really an all encompassing "This is what it means", but there are trends.

And we have a direct comparison.

Melee are all "attacks" except for their ranged options. Then it's "Ranged Attack." In other words, when the primary "Attack" kit is melee, we add a prefix "Ranged" (or other tags) into the text tooltip for attacks that differ.

All of Red Mage's weaponskills save for one enchanted variant is Melee. Therefore, Enchanted Reprise should have "Ranged" added into it's text. "Ranged Unaspected Damage" sounds kind of clunky. "Ranged Unaspected Attack" sounds better, and as demonstrated, not all physical skills are attacks, so there's really nothing wrong, or misleading, about a magical sword skill being an 'attack'.

If you cannot figure which is ranged or melee then you need to read the tooltip and figure out what is what first then concuslt someone for more information

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

It's a comparison. Two abilities that should follow the same conventions, but don't.

Also, that's how logic works. You need only one counter example to show that all don't work that way. The post you pulled from shows others that don't fit the way people are saying the tooltips should write, such as why melee have "ranged attack" tooltips while the ranged are just 'attack' tooltips.

Your claim is that "attack" is all physical damage.

The screen shows otherwise.

There isn't really an all encompassing "This is what it means", but there are trends.

And we have a direct comparison.

Melee are all "attacks" except for their ranged options. Then it's "Ranged Attack." In other words, when the primary "Attack" kit is melee, we add a prefix "Ranged" (or other tags) into the text tooltip for attacks that differ.

All of Red Mage's weaponskills save for one enchanted variant is Melee. Therefore, Enchanted Reprise should have "Ranged" added into it's text. "Ranged Unaspected Damage" sounds kind of clunky. "Ranged Unaspected Attack" sounds better, and as demonstrated, not all physical skills are attacks, so there's really nothing wrong, or misleading, about a magical sword skill being an 'attack'.

---

No, all it means is that there is an occasional exception which is not unexpected given the number of skills. It could be a mistake or oversight in the Drill Cannon tooltip. A single counterpoint does not completely invalidate anything. There are other exceptions out there. E.g. Dragoon's jumping attack lists that it is a fire jumping attack which is ambiguous to whether it does physical (attack) or elemental (fire) damage.

It doesn't sound clunky because it says exactly what it does just like every other magic damage dealing ability in the game. They all use the notation: "deals <element> damage." Where element is fire, lightning, ice, etc. and if there is no element then it is unaspected. It's not hard. Adding the word attack adds in ambiguity where there is none which is counter to your entire request, especially when RDM has a buff that is specific to that difference. You can see this just in the RDM weapon skills themselves. Unenchanted ones use the word attack and the enchanted ones use unaspected damage.

Looking at the ranged skills that the melee's have, they either obtain them at level 15 or they are gap closers. The gap closers use the gap closer description which leaves the level 15 attacks. They likely put in the word ranged because of new players. If a RDM can't figure out an attack is ranged from the range attribute on a tooltip by level 76 then that's on them, not the tooltip. Also, RDM kit is primarily not melee so that makes for a poor excuse to add the word ranged to a tooltip that already clearly shows the range like with every single ranged skill in the game. And this is true without exception. Every single skill, ranged, melee, or otherwise, has the explicit range of the skill listed regardless of the text description. Even the melee skills of the primarily ranged classes don't use the word melee in their description. They do indicate something like "cone in front" or "all nearby enemies" but that is a descriptor of the AoE shape which is something that isn't able to be described by the range and radius attributes of the tooltip. Something which a single target ranged skill doesn't need.

Seriously, this skill's tooltip is complete and not hard to comprehend at all and this entire thread boils down to people not properly reading the tooltip and then complaining about it despite that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Seriously, this skill's tooltip is complete and not hard to comprehend at all and this entire thread boils down to people not properly reading the tooltip and then complaining about it despite that.

---

I said "Red Mage's weaponskills".

I also stated that Red Mage is just in an odd position as a job where they have a little bit of everything. The Red Mage is in a position where these discrepancies between convention and tooltip exist much more readily. The Melee, for example, are almost entirely melee, which is why "Ranged Attack" is given a descriptor, yet this is not the case for the Ranged Jobs.

That sets the case that tags like "Ranged", "Jumping", "Rushes" and other common place descriptors are primarily there to differentiate them from the standard actions of their kit. A "Ranged" job doesn't need the "Ranged" tag on its tooltip because by the nature of the job, its "attacks" are ranged by default. I suspect any theoretical action they received with a range of 3y would likely get the descriptor "Melee" or "Point Blank" or something similar put upon it.

The long and the short of it is that cleaner tooltips can only be positive for the game moving forward. They will not negatively impact you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

I also stated that Red Mage is just in an odd position as a job where they have a little bit of everything. The Red Mage is in a position where these discrepancies between convention and tooltip exist much more readily. The Melee, for example, are almost entirely melee, which is why "Ranged Attack" is given a descriptor, yet this is not the case for the Ranged Jobs.

---

No it's not. All classes have both ranged and melee attacks, and the Dancer is one job that has even more variation than RDM and doesn't use the word melee or ranged in their descriptions at all. The only reason their melee skills have a bit more description in the tooltip is because range and radius aren't enough to fully describe an AoE effect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

The long and the short of it is that cleaner tooltips can only be positive for the game moving forward. They will not negatively impact you.

---

Except that adding the word attack adds ambiguity since physical damage skills use the word attack and magical damage skills use <element|unaspected> damage. Making the tooltip LESS clear by doing this does indeed negatively impact me considering we have a skill that buffs only our magical damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mhaeric

No it's not. All classes have both ranged and melee attacks, and the Dancer is one job that has even more variation than RDM and doesn't use the word melee or ranged in their descriptions at all. The only reason their melee skills have a bit more description in the tooltip is because range and radius aren't enough to fully describe an AoE effect.

---

Melee range is 3y.

Dancer has no melee skills, as the aoe radius is beyond the melee limit. They have "Point Blank AoE", which is given the descriptor "to all nearby enemies". Every single point blank AoE skill has this. (Edit: Or should have this, at least)

In the same vein that cone and line effects are not "Melee". They are "Cone" and "line" aoe effects, given the descriptors "In a cone" and "In a straight line".

Also, '0y' range and '5y' radius is more than enough to determine it's a "Point Blank AoE". It has '0y' range, extending from your character. It effects a radius of 5y. If that requires more text to better define its targeting capabilities, then so does Enchanted Reprise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Except that adding the word attack adds ambiguity since physical damage skills use the word attack and magical damage skills use <element|unaspected> damage. Making the tooltip LESS clear by doing this does indeed negatively impact me considering we have a skill that buffs only our magical damage.

---

"Deals a Magical Attack".