Can we please ban advertisements for selling clears from PF?

They aren't doing anything wrong. Selling clears for gil openly is allowed and selling for real money is allowed as long as you keep the particulars out of the game.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

They aren't doing anything wrong. Selling clears for gil openly is allowed and selling for real money is allowed as long as you keep the particulars out of the game.

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Selling for real money is most certainly not allowed if it’s being discussed in the game or not it’s a violation of the terms of service they are just skirting around getting caught

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Originally Posted by Gula

Would be nice if they put their ads in the proper category for one.

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While I'm not advocating it, as yeah it can be annoying, thats simply a misuse of PF and not a legitimate issue. Basically this thread has gone from "Can we ban the purchase of clears as they are a bad thing for the game and questionable" to "presentation of PFs mildly annoys me".

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Thats a dangerous precident to set. Nothing about asking to talk on discord is directly incriminating. There are many reasons why a player may do this, the use of voice chat and ease of communication between a large group of people being two of those reasons. It is only suspicious behavior if you create a narrative that it is suspicious, which SE rightfully don't do. Should we treat requiring people to use discord in savage PFs as a problem too because there is no way to transcribe the communication?

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I mean I don’t know if you intentionally left out the part I said about demanding payment terms on discord which is completely unrelated to people doing savage mechanic callouts over discord voice chat....

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

They aren't doing anything wrong. Selling clears for gil openly is allowed and selling for real money is allowed as long as you keep the particulars out of the game.

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It is not allowed, just impossible to prove.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

I mean I don’t know if you intentionally left out the part I said about demanding payment terms on discord which is completely unrelated to people doing savage mechanic callouts over discord voice chat....

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"Please can we discuss payment terms on discord so that we as a group, including people who are not in game can contribute to the sale" - Who are we to say this isn't happening, there is no evidence either way, and if there is then it IS reportable.

Basically your argument comes down to "because they have said this, I assume that they are doing something suspicious. My suspicion is highly subjective, taking into account bias and preconceived ideas of clear purchases, but I don't have any evidence that what I think is happening is actually happening". Of course there is always a chance that you are right, but your solution sets a precident on what people are allowed to say or do within the game.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

It is not allowed, just impossible to prove.

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SE doesn't have to prove anything, it's their service. If it wasn't allowed the ads would be taken down. Like parsing, they can't officially endorse it, but as long as you keep the info to private channels they don't have a problem with it.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

SE doesn't have to prove anything, it's their service. If it wasn't allowed the ads would be taken down. Like parsing, they can't officially endorse it, but as long as you keep the info to private channels they don't have a problem with it.

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So what proof does SE have to take the ads down from pf, SE cannot just go nope you are selling stuff for rl money based on hunches, they get sued, as annoying as they are without hard in game proof of them actively selling runs for rl money(they have to say it within the game so gl with that) SE cannot do anything despite it being against ToS.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

SE doesn't have to prove anything, it's their service. If it wasn't allowed the ads would be taken down. Like parsing, they can't officially endorse it, but as long as you keep the info to private channels they don't have a problem with it.

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Parsing can be openly talked about without repercussion in any setting that does not allow harassment, and is such a complicated topic that it is a bad example to use.

Basically the rule with parsing is that "Third party applications that read data are not allowed", this means parsing is not allowed, but this is only on a technicality. The target of this rule is things like hunt trackers, botting tools, and market trackers, that would give players a fundamental advantage over other players. Yoshi P has publicly acknowledged the value of parsers in high end raiding scene across the entire MMO landscape, and has unofficially deemed parsers fine "so long as you keep it to yourself and don't harass people".

RMT is not allowed, period. thats what selling clears for real money is, it's a Real Money Transaction, and any mention of it ingame will get you banned. The ads however, do not endorse RMT, only the service, and therefore adhere to the terms of service. Programs like discord are completely allowed, and any mention of them is perfectly fine, and people will get away with it if they take it to private channels, in that sense you are right that talking about RMT in these channels is perfectly allowed. The catch is though, while you don't have to adhere to the ToS, you are also not protected by it if you use these channels, and SE will not listen to you if you get burned by your actions.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

So what proof does SE have to take the ads down from pf, SE cannot just go nope you are selling stuff for rl money based on hunches, they get sued, as annoying as they are without hard in game proof of them actively selling runs for rl money(they have to say it within the game so gl with that) SE cannot do anything despite it being against ToS.

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:confused: They can remove whatever they wish from the game. Removing a PF advertisement will not get them sued. What is it with people now adays and trying to file lawsuits over anything and everything.

Go to any lawyer and they will laugh you out of the office for trying to file a law suit cause a game company removed your party listing from their game. The game runs on their servers so they have the right to remove anything on that server including your party listing.