When do the training wheels come off?

Well on ARR initial release the training wheels pretty much were fully off by Hauke Manor and Brayflox Longstop. 28-36ish if remember right. The mechanics in those two tended to weed out the lazier ones a bit, and required knowing job basics and such then.

With all the rebalances and expansions, I'm not sure where it moved to. Depends on how far vets are just willing to carry people.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

I understand your point with mixed DRG/tank gear. Accesories are good at that level, but not gamebreaking. However, allow me to correct you on something: Garuda is more than 110+ MSQ in, you probably did 8 obligatory dungeons (Not counting the ones you unlock with your GC) and both Ifrit and Titan, though the later don't drop gear. Also, don't you receive a message when you reach level 30 that you can finally unlock your job? The randomnized stats of pink gear are secondary, the main stats (STR+VIT) remain the same in accordance to the gear's ilvl. This is not a concern for the new player: Better gear -> it has my job's tag on it = Should use that one.

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I do not know of any such message, but I haven't unlocked a job in a very long time. It's possible that if such a message exists, it was added after the last time I unlocked a job or I forgot about it. Also, that the primary stats are fixed doesn't necessarily mean it's better. I've definitely had god-tier rolled gear that was a lower level and had a few less dex or whatever that was obviously superior to a trash-tier rolled piece that was a couple levels higher.

At any rate, my point isn't that it's impossible for new players to figure this out, only that it's reasonable some of them will not and not because they're just egregiously lazy or stupid. Such players are best dealt with by giving them polite guidance, as they usually want to do well and simply don't know better and it will prevent them from becoming reflexively defensive in future situations if more correction is needed.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

I'm stuggling to understand why you would expect someone doing an MSQ quest and not even level 50 yet to play the game to your strict requirements. Really all I can suggest is to get over yourself.

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If asking someone to wear appropriate gear is strict, I guess you would be fine with players wearing nothing but racial starting gear and level 1 weapons at level 44.

I actually had the same thing not too long ago today on my WHM. Level 40 something Gladiator, caster gear and damned near impossible to heal. Eventually I ended up tanking, due to healing aggro, running around spamming heals on myself in a circle around them while trying to type and beg for them to please AoE grab them or something.

There's literally no excuse for this, cruel as people may think it sounds. Your quest log even pops up below MSQ for a quest to get ya job stone and even gives ya gear.

Was one of the worst experiences I've had, and we finally vote kicked him out when I died on the boss due to heal aggro pull. Someone else can carry them.

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Heh, just noticed we're on the same Data Center... Probably the same guy. What was most annoying is they were unresponsive to anyone's words they typed. Even telling them how to swap to party chat etc. People like this get added to blacklists for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Azbroolah

I'm absolutely gobsmacked that people are actually defending the level 44 jobless tank wearing caster gear in group content (and getting liked for it!!!). Are we supposed to have the attitude that all new players are basically mentally challenged babies who have no ability to acquire information for themselves if we don't say things like 'you should use a job stone =UwU='? Like, it's fine if they're doing a messy rotation or whatever, but this is a multiplayer game and you're doing your teammates an absolute disservice if you don't even make an effort to understand the barest basics of the game.

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You don't pay my sub! I want to tank in a robe! You can't make me wear armor! Getting heavy armor is to much work and to expensive!

I wouldn't defend that player but to me, a level 44 GLA vs a lvl 60 or 70 GLA are situations I would handle differently. To extremely simplify things, I would give the lvl 44 GLA the benefit of the doubt because I would put them on the side of being unintentionally ignorant while the 60+ GLA would have my contempt.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

So what you're saying is that you were able to successfully handle the basics of the game because past experience had prepared you for it.

Did you ever consider that not everyone has that past experience?

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So the game telling you every 5 levels about doing your job quests isnt enough? That one very early MSQ quest telling you about the importance of gear and literally not letting you proceed without equipping half decent gear for ypur level isnt a big enough hint? The MSQ and side quests drowning you in gear isnt enough?

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

So the game telling you every 5 levels about doing your job quests isnt enough? That one very early MSQ quest telling you about the importance of gear and literally not letting you proceed without equipping half decent gear for ypur level isnt a big enough hint? The MSQ and side quests drowning you in gear isnt enough?

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Yes, I don't think it's enough to guarantee that every last player gets the message and correctly understands it, even if they aren't just especially stupid or lazy. To accomplish that, they'd likely have to make class and job quests required for the MSQ, impose stricter job and class requirements on low level gear, and add ilvl requirements throughout the leveling portions of the MSQ. It's easy to sit here and be indignant because how dare anyone not figure everything out immediately, but people come to this game from vastly differing backgrounds, which will affect how they interpret what is shown to them. Many players probably will assume their gear is good enough so long as they continue to succeed. Likewise, since the gear does impose some restrictions on even the lowest level gear, the absence of that on other pieces might be understood as tacitly endorsing it for all classes. Class quests may seem like an only somewhat important side quest that can be done at their own leisure. There are plenty of ways ordinary people with limited or no experience with this genre could end up doing things horribly wrong that do not require there to be any particular deficiency with them as people. You'd have to be quite foolish to think otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Silfar

Black mage only used fire 4, no flares, 1 thunder 4 maybe 1 foul not even any fire 2s.

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BLM does not use Fire 2 post level 68. If you're going to insult players about not knowing how to play their jobs you might want to not spread misinformation yourself.

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Originally Posted by Selova

BLM does not use Fire 2 post level 68. If you're going to insult players about not knowing how to play their jobs you might want to not spread misinformation yourself.

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They didn't use Flare either, so don't know why you're going on that tangent with OP, when obviously the BLM didn't know what to do.