Reminder that war is still good.

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Originally Posted by msoltyspl

Did we really ?

- we have good old stuff - rampart, vengeance, reprisal, equilibrium (now freed from tank openers)
- we have ToB now merged with now gone convalescence (so +hp and +heal) freed from minor dps boosting roles and memeheaval
- we have refurbed raw intuition - now on super short CD, flat 20% mitigation, with no cons (besides sharing CD with nascent)
- we gained nascent, god tier for trash pulls and somewhat useful for single targets
- we gained arm's length which doubles as quite good yet another mitigation for trash pulls

We (all tanks) lost anticipation (which statistically was not particularly amazing +30% chance for parry to happen) and awareness which had somewhat niche use in some scenarios (and was often paired with old version of raw intuition during trash pulls).

IMHO it doesn't feel like we lost anything relevant.

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Sure that comparison sounds good when you conveniently omit the loss of Inner Beast.
Inner Beast had a longer duration and could be used more frequently then the new Raw Intuition. It mitigated for the same 20%, and it healed.
You also really underplayed the fact that Raw Intuition and Nascent Flash are mutually exclusive. Sure it adds options to our toolkit, but it's ultimately one or the other, they share a cool down timer. That's a pretty big deal.
Plus Nascent Flash's healing isn't that impressive. We could already do "god tier" trash pulls with the healing from Steel Cyclone in SB (which is something else we lost that you didn't mention).
I actually had ToD and Conv macro'd together, so really no difference there aside from a minor QoL. At least for me.
And Vengeance got nerfed a fair bit, which again you didn't mention. 15s duration down to 10s.

Bit of an aside to what you posted, but over all gameplay was a lot more interesting before too, which is a big factor in the over all discussion. It's also my main gripe with ShB warrior. How "good" it is will vary over the course of the expansion and balance patches, so I'm not too concerned with that. I don't think warrior is particularly behind the other tanks.
But you used to have a choice between dps and survivability when spending your resource (gauge), and that's gone now. The memecleave has just gotten dumber.

Edit: Oh, and because our beast gauge could actually be used for defensive abilities, Inner Release could also function as a defensive cool down. Aside from the obvious Steel Cyclone spam during trash pulls, you could get 16s of 20% damage mit from Inner Beast plus several inner beast heals. While niche, it was actually a pretty potent survivability tool.
Now it's a pure dps cooldown with no other function then to spam fel cleave.

WAR is not doing bad, its just boring with the current toolset. And people will cry they dont want to keep 2 ogcds with long cd in check.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

You wanna try that again buddy? WAR was the 2nd class I got to 80 and I stand by what I say. Unlike all other tank jobs:
You don't have a gap closer to use on cooldown with charges unless you are IRing.
You don't have a DoT.
And you have objectively the worst OT skill out of all the tanks. 20k heal means nothing when my MT is taking more damage.

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Now play WAR at an optimal lv. Or at least play WAR in extremes trials before complaining.

Also, don't call me buddy

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Now play WAR at an optimal lv. Or at least play WAR in extremes trials before complaining.

Also, don't call me buddy

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You're making a lot of assumption about what this stranger has or hasn't done... Not to mention the goal post moving.

Warrior's been my main since ARR, it's my first 80, and I've tried the Ex trials. I also think they should get rid of the gauge cost on Onslaught. It's really weird to put a cost like that on a gap closer/opener. I don't see what purpose the cost has in the class' balance, and it would be a nice QoL change to not have it.

I really thought they were going to get rid of it in ShB and was surprised when they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Now play WAR at an optimal lv. Or at least play WAR in extremes trials before complaining.

Also, don't call me buddy

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Already done. Heck I even went back with my static and did some UWU after titania ex farming. It still is lacking in tools, all other tanks got with the large sweeping changes.
Onslaught is objectively without question the worst gap closer of all the tanks because its tied to our Beast Guage will all others arent. The heal from flash outside of trash is irrelevant in a raid setting. We lost Inner Beast stance dancing resulting in some loss to mitigation (Raw Intiution is good but we still did lose a cooldown). Vengeance duration got cut down to 10s from 15s.

Look at all WAR hotbars right now and compare them to all the other tanks. Its barren and clearly has less of a toolbox than all the other tanks. Lets not also mention WAR has the least APM of all the tanks by a country mile now.

Not only that but WAR is also the oddball when it comes to melding. If you want to consider running 2 different tank comps it makes WAR awkward because for melding other tanks you go for DH>Crit. However, for WAR you never want DH so no when you want to swap to WAR you either pull out all your materia possibly breaking a good portion just to remeld for WAR and vis versa if you are swapping from WAR. Why isn't IR just a Damage increase and Inner Chaos just a GCD with a cooldown like Sonic Break???

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Originally Posted by Arewn

You're making a lot of assumption about what this stranger has or hasn't done... Not to mention the goal post moving.

Warrior's been my main since ARR, it's my first 80, and I've tried the Ex trials. I also think they should get rid of the gauge cost on Onslaught. It's really weird to put a cost like that on a gap closer/opener. I don't see what purpose the cost has in the class' balance, and it would be a nice QoL change to not have it.

I really thought they were going to get rid of it in ShB and was surprised when they didn't.

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My assumption is due to the best warriors players do not care about this. Or if they care it is not a priority.

If you play WAR in an optimal lv you know that you have to use Onslaught to control your beast gauge to not overcap. The lower CD and the bigger range makes it up for the gauge cost.

Let me be more straightforward. If they remove the cost will be more like a nerf then a buff since you have very few ways to control your gauge, that is why I said people who ask that don't really play warrior. I think that is why the reddit and other communities treat the forum as a giant meme. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

War doesn’t need a buff atm. The moment crit becomes the best stat war will be top dps from the tanks again.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

My assumption is due to the best warriors players do not care about this. Or if they care it is not a priority.

If you play WAR in an optimal lv you know that you have to use Onslaught to control your beast gauge to not overcap. The lower CD and the bigger range makes it up for the gauge cost.

Let me be more straightforward. If they remove the cost will be more like a nerf then a buff since you have very few ways to control your gauge, that is why I said people who ask that don't really play warrior. I think that is why the reddit and other communities treat the forum as a giant meme. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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It will not be a nerf in any capacity whatsoever.
Using Onslaught to get rid of 20 gauge so that you don't over cap gives a functionally identical result to using onslaught and overcapping by 20 because it didn't consume any gauge.
Overcapping gauge is intrinsically bad because it is a waste. But there's no further penalty to over capping then that. So given a situation where Onslaught is now free and you overcap as a result, you haven't lost anything. In both cases the gauge would have been "wasted" relative to one another. Either "wasted" by over capping, or "wasted" because onslaught isn't free. You're just able to use Onslaught more freely and frequently by making it free, which is a buff no matter how you look at it.
It's not a big buff, or a big deal. It borders on QoL more then anything. And more gauge management tools would be appreciated. But it's not a nerf to make it free.

Arrogantly making allusions to "playing at an optimal level" and "the best players" doesn't make you sound any more convincing, nor does acting aloof about it. Present the facts on how it works and let your point stand on it's own merit.

Removing gauge cost from Onslaught would arguably be a nerf because the DPS gain would theoretically be balanced around by removing potency elsewhere. That is, our final DPS would stay the same, but we would now have to Onslaught on cooldown, reducing its availability as a gap closer.

The "issue" with Onslaught right now is that the gauge to potency ratio has changed, but Onslaught received no potency increase to compensate for it.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Removing gauge cost from Onslaught would arguably be a nerf because the DPS gain would theoretically be balanced around by removing potency elsewhere. That is, our final DPS would stay the same, but we would now have to Onslaught on cooldown, reducing its availability as a gap closer.

The "issue" with Onslaught right now is that the gauge to potency ratio has changed, but Onslaught received no potency increase to compensate for it.

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Why would they nerf any potencies? Lol. They didn't nerf the potencies of any of the other tanks just because they got a OGCD gap closer. It doesn't add that much damage to their kit, but would arguably let WAR catch up to PLD dps which many argue is at the perfect spot with what little dps gain it would be. WAR is doing less than PLD and is currently at least accoding to fflogs, currently the least played tank in end game. All 3 other tanks are sitting at about 51k clears while WAR is sitting at 41k. That's about a 20% difference which means the community doesn't value WAR as much as the other jobs atm.
Once DRK gets its much needed changes WAR will next be consided the worst tank because it didn't get updates to its kit that all other tanks got.