SAM is undertuned again.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

Tbh if they nerfed it’s damage slightly and deleted Litney it’d be fine.

We are aware ninjas do over 11k dps right? O.o if you look up the top ninjas, they are only 2k dps behind the highest BLM in the game... if u look them up, the averager and maximum numbers put Ninja 2k DPS below BLM which is the highest DPS. they really arent as bad as people are saying i think there is some sorta exaggeration used, in SB Ninja was Defintly Not within 2k DPS of the Pure BLM jobs. i think most of the problem is, SE have done as much as they can now to remove 60 second burst windows.. which has Innately nerfed TA.

imho, they need a New type of utility to offer, Remove TA and Introduce some Mechanics which hold more weight in a Raid enviroment.

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... wha? If, for whatever reason Litany were deleted, why would Dragoon then be nerfed? That destroys the whole job. Dragoon would be downright worthless in this scenario. They don't need a nerf currently, and especially not if Litany were removed. That would essentially make them a Samurai.

As for Ninja. You need to look at the parse itself. Those top ranked Ninjas are being padded up the wall. The 100th was given literally every buff the party had; Spire, Bole, Dragon Sight, Dancer buffs; everything. This is why you typically look at the averages because it helps filter out padded runs.

I feel like both Meditate and Shoha should be reworked. Both are far too situational for a lvl 60 and 80 skill respectively. Like, it's stuff you would expect as side filler that is rarely used (which would still be bad mind you). It just seems like an idea that sounded cool but doesn't really work well in practice. If we were just to adjust the values to make it solidly viable, Meditate should last for 5 seconds and give 20 Kenki per second and have Shota do 200 potency per tick (1000 at max). At that point, 5 seconds for both 100 Kenki and a 1000 potency attack would make it worthwhile to actually use regularly. Considering Samurai has 0 utility, bumping their damage by making two bad abilities worthwhile would really just be killing two birds with one stone.

meanwhile playing SMN is like playing high APM starcraft and does trash can DPS yet you are here complaining about SAM XDD

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Originally Posted by adamswagem

meanwhile playing SMN is like playing high APM starcraft and does trash can DPS yet you are here complaining about SAM XDD

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To be fair, both are in a crappy spot.

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Originally Posted by adamswagem

meanwhile playing SMN is like playing high APM starcraft and does trash can DPS yet you are here complaining about SAM XDD

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Actually, I already responded about SMN in which I said that if the DPS didn't go up with the increased difficulty to optimize the class in 5.0 that potency should be adjusted. I also suggested a couple QoL things to make it easier to manage. It's fine if they want us to be more busy, but I think an increase in DPS should follow such a change, certainly not a decrease. However, I think Samurai, and some other classes too, could use some adjustments as well. I do think Ninja and Dancer aren't outputting enough personal dps currently for example even in respect to their raid utility. I think all four classes could use about a 10% (give or take) increase in damage output if potency was the only thing to be adjusted.

Been with SAM with various EX clears. No problems at all. And some of the logs are high because of dancer.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

... wha? If, for whatever reason Litany were deleted, why would Dragoon then be nerfed? That destroys the whole job. Dragoon would be downright worthless in this scenario. They don't need a nerf currently, and especially not if Litany were removed. That would essentially make them a Samurai.

As for Ninja. You need to look at the parse itself. Those top ranked Ninjas are being padded up the wall. The 100th was given literally every buff the party had; Spire, Bole, Dragon Sight, Dancer buffs; everything. This is why you typically look at the averages because it helps filter out padded runs.

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U believe dragoon doesn’t need a nerf?

It holds powerful utility. With like 4th highest dps. It litterally renders multiple other jobs worthless

It should not be doing 12k+ dps with good utility.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

You believe dragoon doesn’t need a nerf?

It holds powerful utility. With like 4th highest dps. It literally renders multiple other jobs worthless

It should not be doing 12k+ dps with good utility.

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Problem is that you suggested they remove their utility and nerf it both, which would indeed make Dragoon pointless. They can either nerf it or remove its utility, but not both. Not to mention that nerfs are no fun, unless a job is truly, entirely overperforming, it feels better to bring underperforming ones up to par instead of doing the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

U believe dragoon doesn’t need a nerf?

It holds powerful utility. With like 4th highest dps. It litterally renders multiple other jobs worthless

It should not be doing 12k+ dps with good utility.

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As Vallerie noted, you wanted both a nerf to their pDPS and the removal of the only raid utility they have. What does the job offer at this point? It has no utility but would be far weaker than Samurai, Machinist or Blach Mage; the "selfish" DPS jobs.

That being said, no, I do not believe Dragoon needs a nerf in either category. Brotherhood is a powerful utility. In fact, Monk itself does slightly higher damage than Dragoon. So why, pray tell, should the latter be brought down lower? Furthermore, what jobs does it render "worthless"? Monk's lack of popularity is entirely the fault of bad design; Ninja is in a similar bind due to the sheer amount of clipping it has, and Samurai could use a damage buff. None of the melee problems are Dragoon related. It just happens to be the one job they got right out the gate—likely because very little actually changed.

I said so earlier but it bears repeating. Dragoon is no longer than utility king it was once. It has a single buff on a three minute CD. This essentially makes it Monk; a high damaging melee DPS with some utility. And before someone mentions Dragon Sight. 5% ever two minutes is laughably weak. Imagine current Astro using only one card every two minutes and you'd still have a stronger buff than Dragon Sight. The 5% is a little bonus for an ability that is ultimately meant for you.

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Originally Posted by Vallerie

Problem is that you suggested they remove their utility and nerf it both, which would indeed make Dragoon pointless. They can either nerf it or remove its utility, but not both. Not to mention that nerfs are no fun, unless a job is truly, entirely overperforming, it feels better to bring underperforming ones up to par instead of doing the opposite.

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I meant or, not and.

Either they’re utility or a small damage nerf. Didn’t reliese I had written and.

I’d agree with the second statement. If it wasn’t the fact sooooo many jobs would have to be readjusted for it to work and that would create a power leap.

Because not only would SAM and Machinist have to be buffed but BLM would have to also be buffed to measure.

Once you have done this suddenly the gap between the top and bottom are far too wide causing every job to have to a buff.

This creates a environment where ur not adjusting meta slightly but one thing flying under the radar would cause a entire meta shift on a raid release.

Buffing sub par jobs are fine when more then one thing is imbalanced. Dragoons position on the dps board is litterally warranting SAMs irreverence is fine except machinist is ment to match them meaning they will also require a equal buff. Which then puts them too close to BLM

Dragoon balancing without nerfs would require a litteral dps bracket change.