SAM is undertuned again.

[Snowborn]

To start, here's the hard data:

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/28/#boss=1045
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/28/#boss=1046

There's nothing wrong with BLM having higher DPS than SAM. It's harder to play; it should be a bit ahead. And MCH should absolutely be third in line, but given their mobility and utility advantage they should definitely be behind SAM by a bit more than they are. After that is where things get silly.

Monk and Dragoon both have AOE party buffs that make them desirable. They're behind us by about 1-2% personal DPS and have AOE damage buffs. DRG is clearly significantly stronger than monk given that they have better utility and they're so close behind MNK.

Ultimately, I think everything from and including monk needs higher personal DPS. I realize there's going to be some variability from fight to fight, but I feel confident that the same old lolSAM trend is emerging.

I'd prefer to see straight potency buffs over a rework of anything but Shoha which probably shouldn't exist in its current form. Shoha just ensures that fights which have significant downtime periods will skew SAM while those without it will cause us to suffer.

I think they should take the Shoha animation and have it play on Tsubame-Gaeshi if you double up a midare, add a ton of extra DPS and some recast delay so I can actually watch the animation for once (I haven't seen it all the way through yet because it works horribly as an OGCD), and I'll be a happy camper.

[cactuarzzzz]

We need Hagakure.

[Nanami_Naniwa]

For a second there I thought you were serious o_ô

[SakiKojiro]

For a second there I thought you were serious o_ô

Friend, the reason SAM is expected to have such higher DPS than other jobs is because it's what's called a "Selfish DPS" as in, it basically adds nothing of value in terms of buffs or utility AT ALL to the party. It has to actually do enough more damage than the others to be viable to bring this job without these things. Then it fits a perfectly fine niche role as a "buff receiver" who can do a lot with the buffs other jobs give it.

Being only slightly stronger than the other Melee DPSes who all bring good utility ain't it, fam.

[Shurrikhan]

For a second there I thought you were serious o_ô

It... is serious.

SAM provides only its DPS, just as BLM does. And yet at the highest levels of play it only does 3%, which provides notable rDPS, and some 9% behind BLM (compared to the at most 3% pDPS gaps in other subsequent leads, with far smaller tDPS gaps to boot)?

Just increase Shoha's potency to 5000.
Kidding aside, something needs to be done about that garbage. I mean, 500 potency for a skill you use once or twice in a battle? Compare it with Gekko or Kasha, "only" 470 potency, but you get to use them FAR more often.

Do you really want your relative output to swing that much between fights based just on whether they have long enough jumps to give you a full Shoha? It's just like Seigan in that matter. You'll likely effectively be balanced around the best fight for Shoha (jumps) and Seigan (raid damage every 15 seconds), but then few fights will actually allow either to be optimized.

As long as they're restrictive enough with fight designs to create little difference between a "best Shoha/Seigan" and "worst Shoha/Seigan" fight, there's no real issue, but... that's not really a constraint we need.

SAM is presently undertuned, purely and simply. It doesn't need to be buffed only in some fights and not others via situational bonus skills, nor need it to constrain fight designs to always for those situational skills' efficacy. Just... buff it generally.

Ah, thanks.
Tbh I've never even looked at that before, didn't even know that it said and distinguished between them but now I see.

TG values already include Kaiten. You can think of it being that they simply did you the favor of not forcing you to double-weave, especially since if you were to use Kaiten on the skill before it, you wouldn't be able to use it on the TG due to Kaiten's own cooldown.

Yeah, I was just thinking that if it worked then it'd be better to delay Kaiten and use it for Gaeshi instead.

Ahh, gotcha. Yeah, being able to stack Kaiten with the TG values would be pretty... ridiculous, be it in a good way or not so good way, haha.

[Kolsykol]

It... is serious.

SAM provides only its DPS, just as BLM does. And yet at the highest levels of play it only does 3%, which provides notable rDPS, and some 9% behind BLM (compared to the at most 3% pDPS gaps in other subsequent leads, with far smaller tDPS gaps to boot)?



Do you really want your relative output to swing that much between fights based just on whether they have long enough jumps to give you a full Shoha? It's just like Seigan in that matter. You'll likely effectively be balanced around the best fight for Shoha (jumps) and Seigan (raid damage every 15 seconds), but then few fights will actually allow either to be optimized.

As long as they're restrictive enough with fight designs to create little difference between a "best Shoha/Seigan" and "worst Shoha/Seigan" fight, there's no real issue, but... that's not really a constraint we need.

SAM is presently undertuned, purely and simply. It doesn't need to be buffed only in some fights and not others though via situational bonus skills, nor need it to constrain fight designs to always for those situational skills' efficacy. Just... buff it generally.



TG values already include Kaiten. You can think of it being that they simply did you the favor of not forcing you to double-weave, especially since if you were to use Kaiten on the skill before it, you wouldn't be able to use it on the TG due to Kaiten's own cooldown.

Yeah, I was just thinking that if it worked then it'd be better to delay Kaiten and use it for Gaeshi instead.

[snipski]

Only melee thats undertuned right now is Ninja, Dragoon is way to strong for how easy it is to play though.

[Brownondorf]

Not sure if its samurai that is undertuned or if its machinist that is overpowered but one thing for 100% sure is that Shôha is pathetic and absolutely need a massive buff/rework.
We knew before ShB release that is was a useless skill and they left it intact...

So let me get this straight:
You get a shôha stack per meditation proc, it takes 5 procs to get shôha to full power wich will pretty much NEVER happen and on top of that there is a 30 secs TIMER on your shôha stacks? for a 500 potency attack? ARE YOU MAD?

I've seen it mentioned many times but they should rework it so that you simply get a shôha stack when you use Midare Setsugekka and NO TIMER ON IT.
Use Midare 5 times and you get your full power shôha. Or maybe a shôha stack per Hissatsu Seigan used... idk
And obviously it needs far better potency. As it stand right now it's just laughable honestly...

[Gallus]

Yep. I'm afraid SAM and SMN are the new ShB clown jobs until SE doesn't decide to do something about it.

[Daethir]

Yep. I'm afraid SAM and SMN are the new ShB clown jobs until SE doesn't decide to do something about it.

Tfw it's the two jobs I'm leveling right now.