I am a little worried about the enmity during pulls

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Originally Posted by Derio

Diversion could possibly be built in to all dps and healer jobs as a trait but not actually mentioned. Or that Tank stance now gives a ridiculous amount of enmity to where it is damn near impossible for you to rip threat off a tank who is in tank stance.

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No. What happened was Yoshi was tired of seeing both DPS not using diversion, even after buffing it, and seeing tanks not use tank stance because of the damage penalty.
So, "hey let's make tanks not want to not use tank stance?" came about. No more damage penalty, and enmity for days.

Honestly aggro issues would be awesome, would be nice having to actlively manage aggro. As it stands for the period of time I have been playing aggro has mostly been passive if you are playing competent players.

If Enmity is an issue, they will buff it real fast. This much I know, everything else though? Might be a while.
I mean if Flash could hold hate and deal 0 dmg(yeah its gone too), imagine what we're gonna be able to do with no damage penalty and probably a super boosted enmity gain from tank stance.

OP: I would sit tight, I think we'll be fine on enmity.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

I mean if Flash could hold hate and deal 0 dmg(yeah its gone too), imagine what we're gonna be able to do with no damage penalty and probably a super boosted enmity gain from tank stance.

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While it doesn't deal any damage, Flash generates the enmity of a 1200 potency attack before accounting for tank stance, and is affected by status effects that affect magical damage. Unleash and Overpower have enmity multipliers that make them generate the enmity of 1300 and 1030 potency attacks, respectively. Current tank stance gives potency*1.7enmityBonus*0.8damagePenalty, so effectively a 1.36x multiplier.

Other "increased enmity" actions have individual multipliers ranging from 5x to 7x.

For ShB actions in tank stance to generate comparable enmity to pre-ShB increased enmity actions in tank stance, the tank stance multiplier would need to be about 6x to 9x. Of course, something on the higher end of this range is probably overkill, as it would assume a current tank is doing nothing but enmity combos and living in tank stance, neither of which is true. 5x~6x would probably be enough.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

For ShB actions in tank stance to generate comparable enmity to pre-ShB increased enmity actions in tank stance, the tank stance multiplier would need to be about 6x to 9x. Of course, something on the higher end of this range is probably overkill, as it would assume a current tank is doing nothing but enmity combos and living in tank stance, neither of which is true. 5x~6x would probably be enough.

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x2

Tanks deal about 66-70% of a DPS damage, meaning to stay 'just ahead' you'd only need about 1.6-7x, which would mean a Tank -would- have to be doing comparatively the same as a DPS in terms of their maximum performance.

x3, let alone x6/9 would completely invalidate threat to the point of why even have it?

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Originally Posted by Rongway

While it doesn't deal any damage, Flash generates the enmity of a 1200 potency attack before accounting for tank stance, and is affected by status effects that affect magical damage. Unleash and Overpower have enmity multipliers that make them generate the enmity of 1300 and 1030 potency attacks, respectively. Current tank stance gives potency*1.7enmityBonus*0.8damagePenalty, so effectively a 1.36x multiplier.

Other "increased enmity" actions have individual multipliers ranging from 5x to 7x.

For ShB actions in tank stance to generate comparable enmity to pre-ShB increased enmity actions in tank stance, the tank stance multiplier would need to be about 6x to 9x. Of course, something on the higher end of this range is probably overkill, as it would assume a current tank is doing nothing but enmity combos and living in tank stance, neither of which is true. 5x~6x would probably be enough.

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I did think of one issue that might be a little hairy, and thats if the tank dies, is ressed and needs to snap back enmity, what with the enmity combo being gone(albeit in those cases id usually just slam them with the combo finisher quick after a voke/ultimatum anyway) then resume, but thats it. And yes I know how flash operates. i mentioned a boosted tank stance(which is very likely considering they got rid of enmity combos) Thanks for the mathematics end, wasnt going for specifics, but I do like seeing formulas.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

While it doesn't deal any damage, Flash generates the enmity of a 1200 potency attack before accounting for tank stance, and is affected by status effects that affect magical damage. Unleash and Overpower have enmity multipliers that make them generate the enmity of 1300 and 1030 potency attacks, respectively. Current tank stance gives potency*1.7enmityBonus*0.8damagePenalty, so effectively a 1.36x multiplier.

Other "increased enmity" actions have individual multipliers ranging from 5x to 7x.

For ShB actions in tank stance to generate comparable enmity to pre-ShB increased enmity actions in tank stance, the tank stance multiplier would need to be about 6x to 9x. Of course, something on the higher end of this range is probably overkill, as it would assume a current tank is doing nothing but enmity combos and living in tank stance, neither of which is true. 5x~6x would probably be enough.

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This is what i am afraid of, you got it right to the point but i wasnt able to find the numbers that would make it more clear.
If tank stance is not going to have a crazy multiplier like x10 then we will generate way less enmity than we are right now during our dungeon pulls.
And that means losing a ton of aggro when silly dps decide to attack pulled mobs before we are able to finish the pull, it will be a painful thing to digest. These skills we are using right now have pretty brutal enmity bonuses, but it is still possible to lose aggro with dps dealing damage to the mob, without this bonus it will be much worse.

On PLD you have 1200 enmity potency flash increased by all those multipliers, giving out 1730 enmity on AOE.
After we step in into 5.0 we will be left only with total eclipse with 120 potency generation without any bonus and multiplied by 3 (optimistic measure) it is still waaay less than we have with flash right now. Unless tank stance gives us like x10 or even x15 generation multiplier it will be really cheesy to play dungeons like that, we may find out we will have to spam total eclipse/unleash/overpower on one group to establish a good amount of enmity instead of just run straight, use one time and carry on like today.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

On PLD you have 1200 enmity potency flash increased by all those multipliers, giving out 1730 enmity on AOE.
After we step in into 5.0 we will be left only with total eclipse with 120 potency generation without any bonus and multiplied by 3 (optimistic measure) it is still waaay less than we have with flash right now.

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You are right about the new AoEs probably generating far less enmity than current ones. However, since all weaponskills will be free, including AoEs; and all AoEs do 120 or more potency (even Unleash is being increased to 150 up from 50); and all AoEs have a follow up AoE that does more damage; there's far less disincentive for tanks to use AoEs. So whereas we currently see people doing an AoE enmity skill once or twice then moving on to single target attacks, we should expect people to simply spam AoEs until down to two targets, so group pulls should be fine even with a lower multiplier.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Diversion is being removed, can't use that any more.

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lmao you got me there.

I low key was wondering how two tanks with stances on would stepping on each others toes. I mean you have to have it on to build your gauge.