Give the possible Eureka 5.X its own weapon, and separate Relic from it

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

You also have the tome weapon, on par or better than both the relic and the primal weapon for almost the whole expansion life cycle, which is the weapon you can obtain by doing instances, hunts, beast quests, Eureka, Deep Dungeon, and probably several others means, with an additional requirement for normal raids, with artificial time gates so that you don't have to use the most efficient method...does this sound familiar ?

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Fine...

You have the raid weapon, the best weapon but hard to get.
You have the tome weapon, the 2nd or 3rd best weapon, easy to get but time gated.
You have the primal weapon, 2nd or 3rd best weapon, requires skill but can be acquired quickly.
You have the relic, anywhere from 1st place to 4th, depending on patch cycle.
You've got crafted as well, for the quick but pricey jump start.

Ok, now we've fixed that, where is this hypothetical sixth weapon going to go?

(Technically we had a sixth weapon in the form of the HoH weapon, but you barely saw anyone using it even when it was vaguely useful because grinding for it when the other options exist was a waste of time.)

Also, an old fashioned relic grind seems pretty redundant, as you point out a grind already exists where you can do a whole bunch of different things at your leisure in order to get a decent weapon.
Maybe alter how the augmented version is acquired, slap a bunch of particle effects on it, call it a day...

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I think an alternative way to get the relic weapon would be possible, similar to how people these days use Eureka opposed to running roulettes for tomes.

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But that's because tomestones are the universal currency to ensure that everyone has access to everything, so it makes them to put them in pretty much all instances.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Also, an old fashioned relic grind seems pretty redundant, as you point out a grind already exists where you can do a whole bunch of different things at your leisure in order to get a decent weapon.

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That's the point I tried to make several times in the past. Tome weapons and Wondrous Tails took both purpose of the past relic weapons, so there's no strategic reason to put the next one there...unless they do the same for every endgame weapon in the game, which would probably kill lots of content.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

But that's because tomestones are the universal currency to ensure that everyone has access to everything, so it makes them to put them in pretty much all instances.

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True, but that was one example. You could do weekly or daily quests that are mutually exclusive that send you either to do a roulette (similar to how you can get Alexandrite maps), or perform some objectives in Eureka 5.0. Tired of roulettes because you already ran them so much and you have nothing to level and capped on tomes? Go kill an NM in Eureka. Stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

You could do weekly or daily quests that are mutually exclusive that send you either to do a roulette (similar to how you can get Alexandrite maps), or perform some objectives in Eureka 5.0. Tired of roulettes because you already ran them so much and you have nothing to level and capped on tomes? Go kill an NM in Eureka. Stuff like that.

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You could, but there's still no strategic reason for SE to spread the weapon and would only diminish the value of Eureka, unless you do the same for every other end-game weapon. This way, it would basically be "Do only what you like to earn what you want"...and people would have no incentive whatsoever to leave their comfort zone and try more demanding stuff because the reward is already available.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Fine...

You have the raid weapon, the best weapon but hard to get.
You have the tome weapon, the 2nd or 3rd best weapon, easy to get but time gated.
You have the primal weapon, 2nd or 3rd best weapon, requires skill but can be acquired quickly.
You have the relic, anywhere from 1st place to 4th, depending on patch cycle.
You've got crafted as well, for the quick but pricey jump start.

Ok, now we've fixed that, where is this hypothetical sixth weapon going to go?

(Technically we had a sixth weapon in the form of the HoH weapon, but you barely saw anyone using it even when it was vaguely useful because grinding for it when the other options exist was a waste of time.)

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Why do we need globally BiS items from every source of content though?

Why not make Eureka/HoH weapons that are BiS for the content in which you earn them while being "Good enough" to participate in alternate content?

Like, that list makes sense... Only in the content in which you already are able to earn those weapons. (Aside from Tomes which can be obtained through Eureka)

None of it makes sense for Eureka/HoH as they're not affected by you having the BiS Raid weapon. To say nothing about how the Tome/Primal/Crafted weapons also mean little to nothing in this content.

So why not have unique weapons/equipment in these alternate modes that provide progression in these alternate modes.

With then making the Relic weapon, that requires a lot of grind, end up being competitive in all content (I.e. So it has bonuses in Eureka/HoH as well as stats that are competitive with Raid/Primal weapons in regular content)

Basically making several "Tier" lists that amount to something like:

Raid Weapon >= Relic > Primal > Tome = Eureka = HoH > Crafted for Raiding/Dungeons
Eureka Weapon >= Relic > Crafted > Tome = Raid = HoH for Eureka
HoH Weapon >= Relic > Others for HoH

Just as an example.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Also, an old fashioned relic grind seems pretty redundant, as you point out a grind already exists where you can do a whole bunch of different things at your leisure in order to get a decent weapon.
Maybe alter how the augmented version is acquired, slap a bunch of particle effects on it, call it a day...

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Ehh... It's not redundant if you make the grind somewhat content. Like, I quite enjoyed the story alongside the Anima relic about creating a soul and infusing it into a weapon and then allowing it to grow. If they fleshed out more story surrounding the different stages of grind on the Relic, it would be very justifiable as content.

Especially if the Relic had the unique properties of being universally competitive, compared to each type of content's potentially more niche items.

You could even make it so that the Relic has you doing all kinds of content too. So that, while you can earn a BiS weapon from just doing your preferred content, to get the Relic you might have to go a little outside your comfort zone for some stages (Though, ideally, not too far. Like, don't put like Savage raids or Hydratos content into it. But maybe some dungeon farming, a few crystals from Eureka, maybe some item from HoH, some FATEs. Perhaps the return of Battlecraft Leves and those Ishgard 10 Leve allowance things)

Whatever they do, please don't put crafted material as part of the relic. What if they made relic weapon strictly from pvp? That content needs some love.

As for the next exploration content, just don't have death penalty, please.

I don't know... I think I prefer eureka to original relic questlines that were basically just running old content over and over. Eureka actually has a storyline even if it isn't directly tied to you making the weapon. The nature of eureka is what allows Gerolt to make the weapon, so I think that's justified.

Eureka was built for relic. Asking them to remove it from that content isn't going to happen in my view. I wish you luck. After all is said and done I hope we see something new and different in 5.0 but I sure hope it's not modeled after 3.0 running old content.

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Originally Posted by linay

As for the next exploration content, just don't have death penalty, please.

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Actually that made the zones more challenging in my opinion. I had no problem with the de-leveling aspects of the zones.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Eureka was built for relic.

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Considering you can go through the entirety of Eureka without upgrading the weapon a single time or what have you? It's so obvious that they took a Diadem design, realized that in and of itself wasn't enough going by actual Diadem numbers, and then put there the biggest carrot they could find.

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Actually that made the zones more challenging in my opinion. I had no problem with the de-leveling aspects of the zones.

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It'll make the place nigh unplayable once it dies down and people are basically alone in there.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Considering you can go through the entirety of Eureka without upgrading the weapon a single time or what have you? It's so obvious that they took a Diadem design, realized that in and of itself wasn't enough going by actual Diadem numbers, and then put there the biggest carrot they could find.



It'll make the place nigh unplayable once it dies down and people are basically alone in there.

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I don't think that's the case. Eureka in FF III was specifically a place where you went to get the most powerful weapons in the game, and the Eureka storyline in FF XIV is literally about a primal/eikon capable of making weapons of legendary strength. It's obvious to me they built Eureka as a place to house the new relic weapon, but they didn't make it mandatory to progress so that you wouldn't be locked out of the new zones because you didn't care to make the weapon.