Can we remove Tank Stance?

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

I hope not, stance dancing is actually fun for some people. I was really sad when they changed Cleric Stance to a useless cool down.

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Is it really fun, or do we just say so because it's all we know? I was also sad when I heard they were changing Cleric Stance, but the reality is that it's been a year and half now I honestly haven't missed the stance dance at all. I'm just as happy without it.


That said, I don't really mind the concept of tank stances. I just with they were implemented better. When the tank stance is the objectively wrong choice for tanking most of the time, something has gone very wrong in the design process.

I wouldn't mind losing the stances, as long as there isn't a nerf to tank damage to compensate for a passive always on defensive boost. I think the devs are a bit too stubborn with their thinking at times, which gets in the way of certain jobs/classes being more fun than they are currently.

With a bit of a rework, DRK could have been the perfect candidate for removing tank stance.
How? Via Dark Arts.

Basically, make Grit a trait, and permanent.
Buff up their HP.
Make Dark Arts consume HP.

Then they trade ‘defence’ via HP consumption, for damage via Dark Arts potencies.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

That said, I don't really mind the concept of tank stances. I just with they were implemented better. When the tank stance is the objectively wrong choice for tanking most of the time, something has gone very wrong in the design process.

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Tank stances aren't necessarily not working, it's the fight mechanics that go against it. Too much focus on DPS checks and not enough punishing tank busters or even just sustained damage, that can't just be taken head on with a decent healer.
The problem is that once you reach the healing and defense benchmarks all that's left is DPS, and the fights recognise this and push your DPS.

I would like to see tank stances on DRK, PLD gone but i do not want to make enmity a guaranteed stat for tanks like in WoW.
Tanks instead should have more options to control it over and make it a little more interesting to manage.

Dark arts could have enmity bonus for the skill and give DRK another GCD combo maybe with damage of a soul eater but with deffensive buff and deffensive enemy debuff in the second part of the combo (or just amor stats steal all together), paladin could use some extra 2 offensive cooldowns for enmity.

Innate enmity generation does not work, due to any content where there is more than 1 tank. We all know how bad a 24-man can get when tanks are fighting each other for enmity and the boss keeps spinning around or running throughout the arena. And in Savage, tank busters and swaps could cause huge problems when hate unexpectedly shifts to the off tank because both tanks are defaultly building equal threat.

I'll tell you what we really don't need: DPS stance. While there are definitely times a tank would not want to be in tank stance, there is never a time where a tank would want to be in no stance. If they're taking off tank stance, they're going to go into DPS stance, guaranteed. If DPS stance is always the default state, then why waste a button on it? There is absolutely no reason why Sword Oath and Deliverance shouldn't be Passive Traits. (Darkside is obviously a bit of a different beast.)

I'd be fine with seeing it gone and reworks done.

Currently the dps penalty in tank stance is way too huge. You literally can't leave tank stance on in Extreme upwards. Try it on the SSS dummies, you actually can't beat them in tank stance. This leads to the meta of turning it off the second you can.

On the flipside, the emnity generated by tank stance is massive. You can turn it on in dungeons, do only your dps rotation and things just stick to you. The only time you really manage emnity is out of tank stance.

Also I don't like the fact that tanks are all about a 1-4-5 emnity combo then 1-2-3 for dps and the occasional provoke or cd at set times. Tank is one class they could stray away from the standard 1-2-3 and try a more reaction-based priority system where we're actively managing resources to mitigate damage for the fight and trying to stay alive. Bosses could hit harder then too. Make it more engaging.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Been in a few parties over the last few days where tanks weren't using their tank stance, were loosing hate, and dying without the damage resistance.

Could we just remove the stance and give them the damage resistance and enmity generation innately?

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Oh I sure hope they get rid of it in 5.0.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

I'll tell you what we really don't need: DPS stance. While there are definitely times a tank would not want to be in tank stance, there is never a time where a tank would want to be in no stance. If they're taking off tank stance, they're going to go into DPS stance, guaranteed. If DPS stance is always the default state, then why waste a button on it? There is absolutely no reason why Sword Oath and Deliverance shouldn't be Passive Traits. (Darkside is obviously a bit of a different beast.)

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Agreed. Sword Oath/Deliverance should a trait, and turning on Shield Oath/Defiance should just disable it temporarily.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

Agreed. Sword Oath/Deliverance should a trait, and turning on Shield Oath/Defiance should just disable it temporarily.

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Thematically I've always thought that Paladin should always be under oath, so I've wanted this for a while just for theme even (although it is also QoL).