Cleric Stance Rework (Suggestion)

FFXI is a good example of healers never needing to DPS really. For one, healer DPS was nearly non-existent on any relevant content due to extraordinary accuracy/evasion/defense checks, which mages didn't come anywhere near close enough, and also extremely low potencies on any and all damage spells. That said, battles were not scripted, so healers had to always be on their toes to heal and remove debuffs (which almost everything was raid wide debuffs). Healers had to upkeep single target buffs on themselves (refresh,stoneskin) as well as making sure tanks were always capped because damage was unavoidable/undodgeable, and tank cooldowns were 3-5min each.

Sort of. In XI MP was a much more valuable resource and there was a lot of literally doing nothing mid fight in order to not waste, or rest back MP (at least in 75 era XI, no idea what it's like now.) If MP worked like in XIV you bet healers would have been nuking regularly.

I will agree, what prevented healer DPS in XI was the preciousness of MP. It's a bit less of a problem now a days thanks to having things like 10-16mp/tick refresh available via gear and songs but it's still important not to waste MP on frivolous things.

Also healer nukes were generally very weak. WHM nukes were both expensive and had long recasts so you couldn't just spam DPS spells all day. RDM nukes capped at tier... 3 I think at 75? Which were pitiful in damage compared to BLM or SCH. And SCH nuking required the use of a Stratagem (think Aetherflow in some fashion) to get access to their largest nukes, and those Stratagems could be used to augment your healing spells.

The funny thing about healer DPS in XI is the fact that meleeing as a healer would be more effective than nuking as a healer - especially since WHM can essentially get infinite MP with the right gearing and party setups and some of the fight benefited having your WHM be afflicted with debuffs as well due to Esuna.

I was really happy when the old Cleric Stance was removed. It's so much better now.
Of course I used Cleric Stance back then but it was a really annoying mechanic.

I would prefer it if they made healer DPS engaging in another way. And maybe give healers also something else than only DPS to use when not healing. But at least make healer DPS a little more interesting as long as it's not overly complicated.

Some people would like it if WHM only would get back the old Cleric Stance. I think I would main AST or SCH then instead. I've been WHM since the beginning. I've often thought I should switch but always stayed WHM. But if the old Cleric Stance would come back to WHM I wouldn't even hesitate to switch if the rest of WHM's kit would stay the same. It would even make more sense if SCH got it instead.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

- Keep the current mind scaling on damage, so people aren't pressured into using cleric if they're too scared that people will die and their 5 second Cleric cooldown will cause a wipe. They can still deal ok damage.

- Revert Cleric back to a toggled stance which reduces your healing output while active.

- Increase the damage bonus of Cleric Stance to 25-35% or so.

Basically, make DPSing as a healer other than SCH fun and interactive again, risky but rewarding, satisfying to master the role. Applying a DoT or two then spamming a single button for 20s isn't fun. Changing Cleric this way, while retaining the current mind scaling, allows those who wish to do so the opportunity to challenge and push themselves to to better, while also making DPS accessible to anyone who either can't or won't use Cleric out of fear of whatever.

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I don't like the new cleric stance either. I was VERY indifferent about the removal of the old one. Basically I didn't care either way. Because all it was to me was an extra chore to turn off before pressing heal abilities.
I don't think adding it back but slightly less polarizing than before is the right thing to do. You advertised this thread as a "rework," but it's really just the same thing.
I don't think Cleric Stance needs to stay in the game at all. Instead, they should give us more buffing capabilities to keep us interested and involved rather than damage abilities OR cleric stance.
More buffing of other players. Since "Healer" doesn't really exist in FFXIV, and they're more like "DPS with healing tools," they should just turn us into full-on heal+support jobs, with tons of focus on buffing allies, and some dps to fill with. That'd be a much more interesting experience than adding chores.

I prefer the new Cleric Stance mechanically. That said, the skill could use a serious buff to the effect.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I prefer the new Cleric Stance mechanically. That said, the skill could use a serious buff to the effect.

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Well now, that's more or less okay, but when we used to only have 5 slots availaible, is was a really "meeeeh" option.

I honestly think it'll completely vanish in SHB.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Well now, that's more or less okay, but when we used to only have 5 slots availaible, is was a really "meeeeh" option.

I honestly think it'll completely vanish in SHB.

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Well as long as FFXIV does not "force" more DPS on the healers (by adding more DPS options in their kit or these kind of buffs, making rougher raid DPS requirements), it's most likely to stay as it is for now. Available for those who want it, but not so necessary.
I see some kind of "shy" progression towards that healer DPS requirements, but I really wish they would push it a bit further (at least on high end content).

I think what healer dps really needs is to be slightly more complex. Sch is fun because it was based on the core of a dps class. So it's more engaging that whm and ast. Job gauges were a step in the right direction and I think if they started weaving a simplified version of what dps have for healers people would be more engaged.

Sch is a good framework to go from since the fey gauge benefits from the use of dps abilities (mainly bane) as well as healing abilities. introducing a similar concept to whm and ast would be a nice step

It's crazy to me that anyone would actually want the old cleric. I bet there isn't a single tank main in this game that misses it, and most are probably saying good riddance. if you were competent with it, that's all well and good, but most healers were not. However, I'd be hard pressed to believe that five second window didn't catch even the best healers off guard on occasion.

I actually like cleric now in its role skill state and took it along on all three healers even when only five were allowed. Adding that extra dps to holy spam or lightspeed+gravity spam is freakin awesome. My only gripe is the short duration in conjunction with the long cooldown. But alas, we are not DPS jobs.

I think stance dancing will return with DNC. Not like cleric of old though. I predict it will swap stances to access different dances and steps. Please look forward to it :p