Thank you for increased difficulty

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Originally Posted by Maeka

What's the point of having a more casual MMO if you're going to lock everything behind the MSQ and then stick a brick wall in the MSQ that prevents people from getting through it? At least with Shinryu, 7 skilled people could squeak by it, if you had a person who couldn't hack it. You can't do that in a 4 man dungeon though.

Then you get people who are not able to deal with <2 second large AoEs being forced to quit because they are unable to progress further until the next expansion when someone can unsync the fight for them.

Please don't get on a high horse, we do not need the MSQ being hard-core or difficult. The MSQ should be easy, to allow pretty much everybody access. If you want hard content, you have it in Savage, Ultimate, etc.

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You seem to have misunderstood. I said nothing about requiring the mist dragon to be hard core or difficult, I said people should be able to handle these mechanics at this point or they should not progress.

Considering we're two expansions in, and in the post-expansion, it's more than reasonable to start expecting players to know how to stay out of the fire.

This is not hardcore. This is merely applying some standards so I need to kick fewer underperformers.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Cape Westwind wasn't a final boss fight against someone with god-like powers. Thordan was, and yet there's absolutely no challenge in that fight. The Ascian he wipes out in a single swipe was harder than him.

The point is, the next "Thordan" should have difficulty, just as Shinryu did. The story parts leading up to that epic battle should be preparing the player for that upcoming dificulty.

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But yet some random dragon that comes out of the mists in the middle of nowhere should be harder than most Primals? I would say the Mist Dragon was far harder than, say, Bismarck or even Susano. Or if you want to keep on track of comparing 4 man dungeons, how about Mist Dragon vs freaking Zenos? Zenos isn't anywhere near as hard mechanically, and is far more forgiving of mistakes. And he was supposed to be a major villain!

I'm not saying beat this or quit, I'm saying take this as an opportunity to get better at the game and progress

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Originally Posted by van_arn

You seem to have misunderstood. I said nothing about requiring the mist dragon to be hard core or difficult, I said people should be able to handle these mechanics at this point or they should not progress.

Considering we're two expansions in, and in the post-expansion, it's more than reasonable to start expecting players to know how to stay out of the fire.

This is not hardcore. This is merely applying some standards so I need to kick fewer underperformers.

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This isn't a mere "stay out of the fire", it's "We're going to give you less than 2 seconds to dodge, and if you don't dodge you are almost guaranteed dead" and if that guaranteed dead is your healer, then it's a guaranteed wipe unless you got a RDM or SMN in the group and even then, a party-wide damage spike happened and you're still gonna die unless you're very quick about getting everybody back up.

And that's the problem I have with that fight. It isn't about YOU and YOUR skill, it's about YOU getting put into a good group with ONE under-performer who causes everybody to wipe because the mechanics are that unforgiving. I don't like wipefests, I don't like blowing 30 minutes+ (especially with that insane distance from the 2nd shortcut) on the same fight because the fight allows almost zero room for error.

Normal content where you have to use your brain? Yes please!

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Originally Posted by Maeka

But yet some random dragon that comes out of the mists in the middle of nowhere should be harder than most Primals? I would say the Mist Dragon was far harder than, say, Bismarck or even Susano. Or if you want to keep on track of comparing 4 man dungeons, how about Mist Dragon vs freaking Zenos? Zenos isn't anywhere near as hard mechanically, and is far more forgiving of mistakes. And he was supposed to be a major villain!

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I actually agree Mist Dragon is slightly too hard. I even said so in the thread about the new dungeons. What I don't agree with is that we shouldn't have difficulty in the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

I actually agree Mist Dragon is slightly too hard. I even said so in the thread about the new dungeons. What I don't agree with is that we shouldn't have difficulty in the MSQ.

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Then we're in pretty much full agreement.

Some difficulty is okay. I felt that Baelsar's Wall (even at release, before people got geared/sync'd) was a nice happy medium. Mr. Sloppy would wreck your face if you stood in the bad and didn't handle the chains. But yet, if you had a little bit of lag on the healer's part, it wasn't an insta-wipe either.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

This isn't a mere "stay out of the fire", it's "We're going to give you less than 2 seconds to dodge, and if you don't dodge you are almost guaranteed dead" and if that guaranteed dead is your healer, then it's a guaranteed wipe unless you got a RDM or SMN in the group and even then, a party-wide damage spike happened and you're still gonna die unless you're very quick about getting everybody back up.

And that's the problem I have with that fight. It isn't about YOU and YOUR skill, it's about YOU getting put into a good group with ONE under-performer who causes everybody to wipe because the mechanics are that unforgiving. I don't like wipefests, I don't like blowing 30 minutes+ (especially with that insane distance from the 2nd shortcut) on the same fight because the fight allows almost zero room for error.

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Kick the underperformers, then. This game needs more fights that actually have a chance of failure, because that's the only way people learn they don't actually know anything about their class.

If you just want free wins, there's always fate grinding our potd/hoh to occupy your time. Or you can unsync run things if you really want free wins.

Like I said before, I have no sympathy if people can't handle these mechanics at this point in the game. You've grown up to what, 350-370+ by this point? If someone can't handle mist dragon after a few attempts after playing the literally hundreds of hours to get to this point, they need to take some time for self reflection a kick offers, perhaps reevaluate their desire to play.

Because the time they've spent has been wasted to to this point.

@van_arn: Again, the problem with the Mist Dragon is not "handling the mechanics".

I know the mechanics just fine.

It's the short time-frames they give you, the insanely short time frames. One spot of lag and he decided to swoop right at me and I'm the healer? We're done. No second chances, no vulnerability, nothing. BOOM, you're dead. Start over from second one and pray you can do the whole thing, start-to-finish, with neither the tank nor the healer having any lag.

Just.......wtf? How is that fair?

I mean, heck, in Raids, you at least have two healers and a lot of times, you CAN recover if one healer lags for a second. Well maybe not Savage, but still.

I feel like the strafing attack could use another second or two of warning, especially since it's just this side of instant death. The heavy hit plus dot plus stun gives you just enough time to see what killed you before it actually kills you.

Otherwise I liked it. Even if I had to keep telling the same person to stop attacking the dragon in mist form while the Regard adds were up.