It would be nice not to be hated

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

To be fair, isn't that the majority of pf jobs in general? Bards who don't keep songs up, ninjas who drift TA time, tanks who never leave tank stance, healers that don't dps, ect. They might bring some buffs but it still hurts almost the same.

It's just easier to notice when a pure dps job isn't performing well because you can just look if they're #1 on damage or not. But at the end of the day, pf crowds are almost always a nightmare.

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This 100%, it's alot easier to look at a parser and view the contributions of the pure dps than the dps with potential utility

Savage is also ilvl 350 content and majority of players have ilvl 370 gear at this point. So players are heavily overgeared for it. I just watch the stream once bard did 4.4k dps on god kefka with full ilvl 370 gear and 0 dead. Bad player is not useful regardless what job they play. Good player is useful regardless what job they play.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Embolden is actually really weak in terms of the overall gain it can give a raid if you compare it to other major rBuffs - I'm not talking about TA since it's difficult to beat that in overall rDPS contribution, but things like Litany, Battle Voice, Brotherhood, Hypercharge, Chain Strategem, Balance, Spear, BRD's Crit buff, or even Foe's.

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It's actually on par with most of those raid buffs, assuming you're aligning embolden around typical raid buff windows and you're not running some kind of meme comp (like triple caster). Most of those buffs provide between 400-500 rDPS (AST cards excluded due to the RNG), which is where Embolden tends to be unless used greedily.

Also it being a 2 minute cooldown isn't THAT big of a deal. Sure having 2 minute cooldowns aligned with BV/Litany is nice when your kill time allows you to hold for it, but if not your 2 minute windows can basically be TA + Chain + Foes (as well as Dragon's Eye for the DRG + whichever dps they target).

Every content in this game can be cleared by all jobs.

If the static purpose is to clear content, they should look at the players' skill rather than which job they are playing.
If the static purpose is to get high numbers (FFLogs/Speed Kills) then they should consider both the player skill and their job.

In most cases, FFLogs/Speed Kills happen around 2 months after content is released. That is when everyone in the static have their BiS.
So if you are looking to clear content on the first weeks/month of their release, focus on getting good players that can carry their weight and more at minimum item level, not which job they are playing.

no-one hates blm, sam or whm..., everyone just wants better fflogs uploads... (and meta is often an excuse for that)

fast fix, just give those classes a slight dps group buff (blm thunder dots also give a magic vun of 2-5%; sam slashing debuff can now be stacked with nin or war slashing with extra 2-5% when stacked; whm cures can proc a 2-5% party crit aoe buff or something)

even if only 2%, if consistant, it will be enough to let those classes join, the psychological effect will be much bigger.., dont need much of an overall buff, .. also since those class do good damage anyway)

You know, it is quite funny when SE says that we should focus more on ways to increase overall party DPS instead of worrying about your own individual DPS, yet make two jobs (BLM+SAM) that focus on being selfish with their DPS. I know what they probably actually meant, but the lack of utility from SAM and BLM seem to go against their design philosophy for raiding.

Also interesting that MCH technically have less utility and less DPS than BRD's do. It isn't said officially, but I would of imagined the trade off being that MCH has less utility but more DPS while BRD has more utility but less DPS. Can't say how that is suppose to be, but would make sense.

Someone said it right, no matter how great the DPS is on BLM and SAM, people will still prefer a job with more utility unless that player is so good on either of those two jobs that they more than make up for it.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You know, it is quite funny when SE says that we should focus more on ways to increase overall party DPS instead of worrying about your own individual DPS, yet make two jobs (BLM+SAM) that focus on being selfish with their DPS. I know what they probably actually meant, but the lack of utility from SAM and BLM seem to go against their design philosophy for raiding.

Also interesting that MCH technically have less utility and less DPS than BRD's do. It isn't said officially, but I would of imagined the trade off being that MCH has less utility but more DPS while BRD has more utility but less DPS. Can't say how that is suppose to be, but would make sense.

Someone said it right, no matter how great the DPS is on BLM and SAM, people will still prefer a job with more utility unless that player is so good on either of those two jobs that they more than make up for it.

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How does MCH have less dps than bard? BRD has higher raid dps contributions for sure but MCH does have higher personal dps than bard

player skill > group comp

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

This 100%, it's alot easier to look at a parser and view the contributions of the pure dps than the dps with potential utility

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People that care about parse runs... tend to notice when their own parse loses some hundreds of DPS because they aren't getting buffs. They're looking at their own historical data more than the DPS of others in their party.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Also interesting that MCH technically have less utility and less DPS than BRD's do. It isn't said officially, but I would of imagined the trade off being that MCH has less utility but more DPS while BRD has more utility but less DPS. Can't say how that is suppose to be, but would make sense.

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This is incorrect—MCH has less utility and less raid DPS contribution, but higher personal DPS than BRD; BRD has higher utility, and by extension, higher raid DPS contribution than MCH, but its personal damage is lower. That being said, the only things MCH can offer that a BRD cannot is Hypercharge and Dismantle, and BRD is usually the preferred physical ranged if a group isn’t doing double physical ranged. MCH is already being benched from speedkills by high-performing casters (SMN usually, but also BLM) or by MNK in a triple-melee setting, while BRD is rarely ever benched (the only exception is UCoB because of the value of Dismantle in there).

Despite MCH’s highly disliked playstyle, the physical ranged are actually relatively balanced with one another. MCH just needs a revamp like BRD got in 4.0, because it is the least popular DPS job out there due to a dislike of its playstyle and how dependent the job’s damage is on a player’s ping (high ping means not being able to cram as much into your Wildfire due to issues with weaving, which means it doesn’t deal as much damage as it could).