According to FFLogs, AST pDPS >= WHM pDPS in 4.3

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

For anyone that wonders why this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5TDzbqfEAo

That sweet sweet enmity <3

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This is why Sebazy is bae. <3 I love unorthodox BS, lol.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Fingers crossed SE notice this trend as well as it'd be a good excuse to have another look over a WHM's overall contribution.

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Sadly, I suspect it will get the Dark Knight treatment. "It cleared Ultimate! It's totes fine!!" Took 4.2 almost killing Dark Knight for them to finally do something.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Sadly, I suspect it will get the Dark Knight treatment. "It cleared Ultimate! It's totes fine!!" Took 4.2 almost killing Dark Knight for them to finally do something.

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I really hope not :/ there is no reason to leave AST doing similar pDPS to WHM.

If it seems overall that AST is doing more, equal, or very close pDPS to WHM on average then WHM should get some potency buff on their DPS spells.

<3 Thanks again for making me Ala Mhigan Gown Cass~ My lalafell looks so adorable in it!

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Originally Posted by Miste

Yes, but those were pretty much necessary, contrary to what Yuyuka said. It wasn't an unnecessary nerf since if you played WHM back in 2.0 you'd know WHM was AoEing more than a BLM which is an actual DPS job.

As for the more mobs there are less damage nerf they did that to a lot of AoE abilities/spells to reduce how much AoE damage was doing as a whole. It's not like they could nerf SMN/SCH bane and nerf BLM Flare and just leave Holy to be more powerful than actual DPS job kits.

I wouldn't consider these unnecessary nerfs...they were needed to fix balance between roles and jobs, just like when they nerfed Balance Card on AST.

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White Mage Holy wasn't broken in any shape or form. I'm not sure why you think this was the case even back then.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Sadly, I suspect it will get the Dark Knight treatment. "It cleared Ultimate! It's totes fine!!" Took 4.2 almost killing Dark Knight for them to finally do something.

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I fear this too. Or even worse, they just don't see anything wrong with this in general because WHM can still heal fine, despite it no longer offering much else to the raid :(

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

White Mage Holy wasn't broken in any shape or form. I'm not sure why you think this was the case even back then.

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I think it because I mained it from 1.0 to 3.4.

I was on a legacy server where at 2.0 launch most people had jobs at max level (50) and did story and were the first servers to start doing end game at the time.

I saw many players excluding SCH healers from their dungeon runs for tomes in Wanderer's Palace because WHM Holy was so powerful. WHM was also doing more AoE damage than actual damage jobs like BLM.

A BLM who is equally skilled and equally geared as a WHM should be doing more AoE damage. They could have buffed other jobs instead, but I'm assuming SE just figured WHM AoE was too good after the player base adopted doing large pulls within the first couple of weeks of 2.0 launch.

This is all my experiences within the first 5-6 months of the game, so that is why I think SE likely figured it was necessary. Sure I loved doing crazy amounts of AoE damage on WHM, but it was kind of OP.

As for the multiple mob reduction...it's the same thing, they nerfed Flare and Bane to reduce the amount of AoE power jobs had because I guess SE wanted to slow down how fast AoE was mowing down large pulls. You really suggest they let WHM keep it? I love DPS on healers, but they shouldn't be doing more damage than the actual DPS jobs in the game.

They also made up for some of this by adding new AoE spells and abilities like Aero III and Assize (So they nerfed Holy, but gave WHM some other tools by the next expac) . Other jobs got other AoEs as well, but it seems like they were trying to reduce how much spike AoE jobs were doing since most of the new AoEs are either DoTs or have cooldowns.

Small easy fix since Ast has now more mobility and almost no clipping at all now.

Malefic III 220 => 210.
Combust II 50 => 45.

But what he's doing now is what he could have done since the beginning since no potencies have been increased.
But yes, that was an indirect increase. And his new mobility and new lightspeed allow him to cast more Malefic III.

I think it wouldn't hurt too much to lower a little potencies as I said if it really almost matches WHM dps, even if I doubt it.

Or just make Stone IV be 250 => 260.

The QoL changes to AST were brilliant, but to have such a change on Lightspeed no longer humping offensive spells was unecesary.
It just changes Lightspeed from a get out of jail free card to a gravity burst phase.

[QUOTE=Miste;4682763]Yeah I understand that. Simply I wouldn't say all WHM's nerfs were unnecessary which is what I was contesting.

Necessary for balance is one thing. But there are also the changes that drastically alter gameplay. 4.0 in general seemed like a disaster for WHM, to me, even if our relative effectiveness was still in balance. We gave up things that were an active part of the gameplay -- Cleric Stance, Stoneskin, etc. -- for longer CD things like Thin Air and... Lilies. Even when they're not nerfing WHM's performance, it often still feels like a nerf to WHM's fun.

Then you add stuff like this, where the damage reduction on Lightspeed is removed and billed as a "QoL" change (L o L) when it's actually just a straight buff that makes WHM completely redundant, while we sit around wondering when we're going to get the unique Job mechanics that everyone else did in 4.0. It really starts to feel like intentional neglect, as with DRK, as someone else mentioned.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

But what he's doing now is what he could have done since the beginning since no potencies have been increased.

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First off, no, that's not how it works, he couldn't have done it before because movement precluded it from happening. Second, no, that's not how it works because A. Helios's cast time reduction also factors in. Third, no, that's not how it works because the lack of GCD clipping gives you more potential / opportunity to utilize Minor Arcana. The cast time reductions were themselves a straight buff and pretending they weren't is intellectually dishonest, at best.

So both Healers are about the same Pdps as Whm, and they still bring utility to the table. Seems Balanced /s

I wonder if they will even deal with this in 4.4 or just leave it alone till 5.0. This situation feels very familiar.