Should healing be this difficult while leveling?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

snipped for length

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I agree with virtually all of this except I am 99.9% sure Asylum doesn't benefit from Largresse. I know it isn't a big deal, just wanted to chip in. I'd also say aa you become more comfortable with dpsing and managing your MP Cure II can be a great spell to heal with primarily, at least in higher level dungeons, because it's obviously more GCD efficent than Cure. Certainly after Thin Air makes your Holy spam free.

There is a time for each of them but in a dungeon setting I'd say as you gain experience Cure II becomes more and more usable/desirable to use.

To the OP - you're welcome! Happy to help! :D

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I agree with virtually all of this except I am 99.9% sure Asylum doesn't benefit from Largresse. I know it isn't a big deal, just wanted to chip in. I'd also say aa you become more comfortable with dpsing and managing your MP Cure II can be a great spell to heal with primarily, at least in higher level dungeons, because it's obviously more GCD efficent than Cure. Certainly after Thin Air makes your Holy spam free.

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You are correct, and thank you for pointing that out. :) It's never my intention to pass false information.

Cure 2 I left to stating it has multiple situational uses. I felt it was the best way to encompass the use of the skill since the poster I quoted was questioning its usefulness, but didn't ask for specific examples. Cure and Cure 2, I honestly believe it can be one of those abilities the devs can put on the mastery tier they introduced with 4.0. I'll be frank. I don't use cure at all, except when synced below Cure 2's level. The only other time is when I am horsing around and quickly filling up my lily gauge, since this is the MP efficient way to do it. Some potency and MP cost adjustments could easily make this viable.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'll be frank. I don't use cure at all, except when synced below Cure 2's level.

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Same. Sometimes I'll throw out a Cure if I'm feeling lucky to see if I can score a free Cure II but that rarely pans out and Cure is just so weak. Blah.

I use Cure constantly, even during multi-pulls. The last thing anyone needs is to be pigeon-holed into spamming Cure II. A crit Cure (or using Largesse) puts it to near comparable level of CII (not quite, but it's a meaty heal), uses very little MP and triggers Free-Cure. Using Cure II only was a poor habit that I'm glad to be rid of, though there are obviously situations where you're going to have to consider the bigger Cure by default.

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

I use Cure constantly, even during multi-pulls. The last thing anyone needs is to be pigeon-holed into spamming Cure II. A crit Cure (or using Largesse) puts it to near comparable level of CII (not quite, but it's a meaty heal), uses very little MP and triggers Free-Cure. Using Cure II only was a poor habit that I'm glad to be rid of, though there are obviously situations where you're going to have to consider the bigger Cure by default.

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Eeeh... WHM have nearly no issues with MP end game, so MP efficiency is kind of a moot point in easy content. So if you ignore lower MP cost and a possible free Cure II all you are left with is a weaker heal.

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Eeeh... WHM have nearly no issues with MP end game, so MP efficiency is kind of a moot point in easy content. So if you ignore lower MP cost and a possible free Cure II all you are left with is a weaker heal.

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While that is (partially) true -- and I say 'partially' due to still noticing CureII-only WHM's asking my BRD for refreshes -- what happens when this factor changes and everyone is stuck in a Cure II mindset? I didn't post my comment as a means of glorifying MP saving, I posted it because Cure II is still gross overkill when Cure (with or without buffers) can cover 65% of scenarios AND trigger free-cure for your Cure II's anyway. If SE randomly decide to tweak the MP consumption for WHM's, yall gonna suffer more than I will due to finding no real need for Cure II other than emergency situations (which is technically how it should be used anyway).

There's no reason to use Cure II if Cure will get the job done. Cure will spend less MP and possibly give you a free Cure II anyways. If I see a WHM casting a bunch of Cure IIs I'm going to assume they're feeling panicked. There's a place for Cure in healing.

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

While that is (partially) true -- and I say 'partially' due to still noticing CureII-only WHM's asking my BRD for refreshes -- what happens when this factor changes and everyone is stuck in a Cure II mindset? I didn't post my comment as a means of glorifying MP saving, I posted it because Cure II is still gross overkill when Cure (with or without buffers) can cover 65% of scenarios AND trigger free-cure for your Cure II's anyway. If SE randomly decide to tweak the MP consumption for WHM's, yall gonna suffer more than I will due to finding no real need for Cure II other than emergency situations (which is technically how it should be used anyway).

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What determines if Cure 2 is overkill? I can't think of any situations where it is overkill unless it over heals. I don't look at Cure 1 being valid to cover 65% of scenarios. I look at it as it should be casted 100% of the time in scenarios that it is valid. This is why I have suggested in the past that Cure 1 and Cure 2 should just follow the mastery system introduced in 4.0. and free up another hotbar slot. Because after we acquire Cure 2, Cure 1 becomes very GCD inefficient. I am more than willing to accept MP cost and potency adjustments to accommodate if they did this, which would actually more than likely favor the Cure 2 enthusiast.

In truth, I cast Cure 1 when I have less trust in my group. My healing threshold is higher due to being the start of an instance; not knowing the instance; and/or inconsistency throughout its duration; and as a result, more GCDs are used towards healing. When this is the case, preserving Mana is in my best interest. If the group is performing well, and confidence in their abilities is gained, then my GCDs are better spent offensively.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

There's no reason to use Cure II if Cure will get the job done. Cure will spend less MP and possibly give you a free Cure II anyways. If I see a WHM casting a bunch of Cure IIs I'm going to assume they're feeling panicked. There's a place for Cure in healing.

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The same can be said of Regen, no? Why cast Cure when Regen can get the job done? The answer to that is you don't cast Regen when it can't get the job done. You can't rely on the HoT to keep the player alive, so you restore more HP with a single GCD. The same exact thing can be said about Cure 2 over Cure 1. The reason I say this is because if your using consecutive GCDs to get a player above your threshold, then guess what you're doing? The exact same thing Regen does, except at the cost of GCDs. If a healer is casting Cure 2 in a panic, not only are they overwhelmed, a group wipe is also very likely.

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What determines if Cure 2 is overkill? I can't think of any situations where it is overkill unless it over heals.

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Even if that was the only situation -- and given you are quoting people who are themselves quoting others who claim to be using CureII "all the time", which you can bet involves a lot of said over-healing -- when 'isn't' it overkill?

Let me put it this way (and this is barely tied to the fact I'm a DPS-loving WHM) - I don't need to keep everyone at 100% at all times, which is something I honestly believe some Healers genuinely think is their job. We're there to keep people alive. If I see someone on 80% HP and know there is no incoming threat for the foreseeable future, I do not need to heal that target. If I see a Tank well prepared for a large pull (and assuming Regen/Asylum/TheUsual alone won't keep things at bay), I don't need to pepper them with CII when I can weave in CI's between DPS'ing, to which opens up free CII's for if/when I feel it's needed. This isn't even out of want of being efficient or worrying about MP (not even as a Holy-spammer of the highest order), it's the simple fact that it achieves the same thing, with cooldowns like Largesse making said heal comparable to a raw CII anyway. You can say it's all unnecessary when 'we have no MP worries', but again, I'm constantly looking to damage, and there are situations where (while I may not go completely starved of MP), trying to DPS and enduring overlong situations due to factors out of my control, I may end up with less than I'd normally like.

The only time I have seen WHM's get MP starved is during dungeons with next-to-no downtime, with that WHM resorting solely to CureII spam. There are multiple reasons for this (most of which are out of their direct control), so while it can be argued that it is not their fault, I personally don't suffer those issues because I'm not pissing my MP up the CII wall all day when it isn't necessary (with or without Holy spam).

I'm opposite to you - I use CI's on groups I trust, given they clearly don't require hoovering up massive heals. If I'm resorting to CII's, it's because the tank tri/quad-pulled with low DPS-teams and I'm trying to stay on-top of the situation so that I can throw out non-QC Holy's, or because people are eating mechanics or damage and finding themselves in low-HP situations when I know something bad is happening very soon that demands I get them healthy enough to avoid that issue ASAP.

CII may be more efficient in a HP/Time sense, but I'm here for the long-haul and don't see SE, no matter how much they enjoy making weird changes, keeping things the way they are indefinitely.

Actually, above isn't really accurate - trust never comes into question, I just have a very progressive view on healing power, with some situations obviously being fine with small, medium or large heals. I don't simply resort to "If you like it then you shoulda slapped Cure II on it" mentality just because we've extra MP to burn these days. I'm also not saying it's bad or wrong to be a CureII'er - I just feel it's a bit much, even if the present situation will make it seem like that couldn't be further from the truth.