Dark Knight Tank Stance Change +3.x Reprisal and 3.x Dark Dance

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

It doesn't make a real difference in very small windows. If we are talking full uptime, that is a huge difference in comparison. This probably needs evaluation if you are trying to keep DPS at a certain point.

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I wasn't talking about the overall effect of Blood Weapon, but the assumed increased potency. Increase speed by 10% is, in reality, reducing the delay by 10%, so you increase the DPS by 1/(1-10%).
But at 10% speed, the potency is 111 instead of 110.

If we were at 20% increase in speed, we wouldn't increase DPS by 20% but 25%, and if we were at 50% increase in speed, we would double our DPS.

Perhaps we should stop using attack speed for wording it and use exactly what it says which is a -10% delay reduction. That flat out means you are doing an extra hit every 10 hits. All the math I'm doing sees that as a 10 potency gain per hit, I don't know where you are getting the extra 1.

Edit: technically you would see +100 potency increase every time 10 hits would otherwise be possible without the -delay due to the extra hit. In a situation where 10 hits were not possible before something happens (a phase change or something) there would be no potency gain due to no additional hit, so saying +10 potency per hit is an error. Its +100 potency every 10 hits or nothing.

I believe Reynhart is correct. The explanation is that decreasing the time between attacks is equivalent to increasing the frequency of damage. In other words, we are only doing a 110 potency attack, which is what you are seeing, but we are doing it more frequently. Since we decrease our GCD by a factor of .9 this is equivalent to increasing our frequency by 1/9 which is 11.1%.

I wasn't talking about the GCD's only auto attacks. Every 10 hits you would do an additional one, if you don't make it to 11 hits for whatever reason, you have not gained any potency from auto attacks.

It's true you are increasing the frequency but the frequency is +1 hit for every time 10 hits that was possible without the -delay reduction. So for example if this new stance for darkside was incorporated and we kept the -10% delay. Every 11 hits we have seen a +100 potency due to having done an extra hit in that 10 hit period of time without the -10% delay. I don't know how I can word what I'm deducing any better.

Edit: correction is 11 hits with the -10% delay. 11 hits transfers to a 100 potency gain due to the extra hit. If you only make it to 10 hits before something becomes untargetable, you didnt gain anything.

Edit#2: GDCs are affected by the -10% recast, they have nothing to do with the auto attacks other than causing interruptions. If you don't make it to 11 hits you still have not seen any gain.

Edit#3: The only other gains that are possible for the 11'th hit are the extra +blood and +MP that come with it, along with the extra chance for a critical or direct hit. So I guess its not just a 100 Potency, you have to include those forms of potency as well and they are also all or nothing. Either the hit happens and you gain those extra or the hit doesn't happen and you don't gain those either.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

I wasn't talking about the GCD's only auto attacks. Every 10 hits you would do an additional one, if you don't make it to 11 hits for whatever reason, you have not gained any potency from auto attacks.

It's true you are increasing the frequency but the frequency is +1 hit for every time 10 hits that was possible without the -delay reduction. So for example if this new stance for darkside was incorporated and we kept the -10% delay. Every 11 hits we have seen a +100 potency due to having done an extra hit in that 10 hit period of time without the -10% delay. I don't know how I can word what I'm deducing any better.

Edit: correction is 11 hits with the -10% delay. 11 hits transfers to a 100 potency gain due to the extra hit. If you only make it to 10 hits before something becomes untargetable, you didnt gain anything.

Edit#2: GDCs are affected by the -10% recast, they have nothing to do with the auto attacks other than causing interruptions. If you don't make it to 11 hits you still have not seen any gain.

Edit#3: The only other gains that are possible for the 11'th hit are the extra +blood and +MP that come with it, along with the extra chance for a critical or direct hit. So I guess its not just a 100 Potency, you have to include those forms of potency as well and they are also all or nothing. Either the hit happens and you gain those extra or the hit doesn't happen and you don't gain those either.

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Ok, for 10 GCDs the difference is small and it is difficult to tell the difference betweeen 11 attacks and 11.1, try the same thing for 100 GCDs. For 1000 GCDs you can fit in 111 attacks. This is the long term difference.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Ok, for 10 GCDs the difference is small and it is difficult to tell the difference betweeen 11 attacks and 11.1, try the same thing for 100 GCDs. For 1000 GCDs you can fit in 111 attacks. This is the long term difference.

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100 is not a multiple of 11.
10 attacks becomes 11 1 extra attack due to -10%
20 attacks becomes 22 2 extra attacks due to -10%
50 attacks becomes 55 5 extra attacks due to -10%
90 attacks becomes 99 9 extra attacks due to -10%
100 attacks becomes 110 10 extra attacks due to -10%
110 attacks becomes 121 11 extra attacks due to -10%
1000 attacks becomes 1100 100 extra attacks due to -10%

I am confused as to what you are trying to imply and where this .1 is coming from.

Edit: .1 cannot be considered an attack, either attacks happen or they don't. In a very rare occurrence you may be able to get off the 10th attack with no bonus attack before an enemy becomes untargetable due to the -delay (implying that without the -10%delay you only made it to the 9th attack because your attacking slower) but that would be an extremely rare scenario.

Right now, my GCD is 2.35. With a 10% reduction, I end at 2.12.

On a 10s window, both GCD allow me 4 attacks, for 400 each time.
On a 30s window, the first GCD allows me 12 attacks (30/2.35 =12.77) for 1200 potency, while the second GCD allows me 14 attacks (30/2.12=14.15) for 1400 potency. 1400/1200 = 1.17, so 17% increase
The same calculation at 60s gives 2500 and 2800, ending in 12% increase
For 150s, the same calculation gives 6300 and 7000, for a 11% increase
At 300s, 12700 vs 14100, for, again a 11% increase.
And so on...

Can someone humor my ignorance for the need that DRK need group utility? What's wrong with having self-sufficiency in spades? 3 GCD + DA for a Souleater that does a pitiful job of healing. Does every tank need some kind of utility to be viable? Paladins have two, Wars have SiO, and to a very crappy extent, DRK has TBN. I don't raid, so this is why I ask. I'd rather be more self-sufficient, taking the needs of my healers off me longer to manage the rest of the raid to be that selfish tank whose buffs only strengthen their own power and defenses. MP is our HP when compared to the olden FF games and I love that. I just want that feeling of being Leon or Cecil unleashing hell on something or soaking up my MP to defend myself. Hell, I'd take a DA TBN for a longer barrier that surrounds nearby party members with the 10%. There's utility at the cost of a LOT of MP. But that's the price we'd pay. Especially if the ideas from the OP ever see the light of day, we wouldn't have to worry too much about our MP, but we'd be more free to burn it as we please.
Thank you for reading!

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

100 is not a multiple of 11.
10 attacks becomes 11 1 extra attack due to -10%

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Your math is off, you gain 1 extra gcd under bw every 9 hits outside of bw. ie at base ss you get 9 hits in 22.5s, with bw gcd of 2.25 you get 10. Thus the 11.1% increase, not 10%

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Snip

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So in 10 unbuffed GCD units we do 10 unbuffed GCD's.

In 9.9 buffed GCD units we do 11 attacks, and end .1 GCD early. Those .1 GCD's will add up eventually.