An idea to combat RMT...

So someone can buy a big mansion, expensive glamours, expensive mounts and be rich ingame, by trading (buy token, sell it for gil) money ----> gil via SE? Isnt this a form of P2W?

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Originally Posted by Laerune

So someone can buy a big mansion, expensive glamours, expensive mounts and be rich ingame, by trading (buy token, sell it for gil) money ----> gil via SE? Isnt this a form of P2W?

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Not really. Someone can trade a token used for buying gametime that costs a fixed price to another player for an amount of Gil. Using gil you CAN acquire a house (if there's one available), glamours, mounts and gear. None of which affect another gamers experience negatively. YOu might argue you can buy crafted gear that's better than anothers, but as high tier gear is not required for any endgame content and all can be acquired through investing in gameplay, there really is no limitation you're surpassing with money.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

So someone can buy a big mansion, expensive glamours, expensive mounts and be rich ingame, by trading (buy token, sell it for gil) money ----> gil via SE? Isnt this a form of P2W?

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No because you can get all the same stuff if you earn the gil in game. P2W would be like if there were a cash shop selling ilvl 350 gear in it even though the best gear in game is 340. But P2W means literally anything you use your credit card for nowadays for some reason. A TON of people now believe FFXIV is P2W because it's sub based. This is NOT what P2W meant back when the acronym started being used.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

What leads to inflation is the people with stockpiles of gil has a use for it suddenly, and the people with low gil would tend to actually use it. Since it is throwing more gil in circulation, that is what leads to inflation. (inflation is not necessary bad, btw, it is hyper inflation that is bad and the thing you want to avoid)

That alone is not a big issue though, the problem in making that system is throwing it in with a market with an extreme housing shortage. Most of the gil exchanged is housing, housing items, and glams. Because this game does not handle housing well, it would create more problems with housing. It has nothing to do with being a "doomdayer" DO THOSE GAMES HAVE EXTREME HOUSING ISSUES?!?!?!?! no? my point is well founded then. I can penta meld a job in full 320 gear cheaper then what I spent on 2 cherry trees, for example, with the first overmeld being a VI) Some fences costs even more then that, just a fence, and that leaves out spending 1 M+ in picture frames, 400k ish for a mailbox, and other things.

It would cause TOO MUCH of inflation in regards of 3rd party communication trade of second hand housing trading and housing items.

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That's very true. I don't think having more money exchanging hands would be a bad thing but for the fact that we don't have enough housing for the demand (and it seems we never will). That has to be solved first.

Ideally what they'd do is after a RMT bot gets reported 3 times, it gets sent to the jail where it can talk to the wall.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

rmt do not pay subs. they use stolen accounts and credit cards. SE bans rmt more then anything. ff11 saw over 3mil rmt ban with 3billion takem out of circulation, the chat filters are in place just rmt figure ways around it.

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I know I played ffxi for over 7 years. And they used the chat filters to stop rmt on ALL chat channels not just tells as they have done in ffxiv. They can stop the rmt if they wish.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

So someone can buy a big mansion, expensive glamours, expensive mounts and be rich ingame, by trading (buy token, sell it for gil) money ----> gil via SE? Isnt this a form of P2W?

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Yes, it's the definition of pay to win!!! Right now the best gear in the game is crafted and must be bought on the marketboard for non crafters. Food is the same, as are certain potions, many gears, etc. So, being able to buy gil (or tokens to sell for gil) is most definitely pay to win. Paying for gil means pretty much anything on the marketboard is yours for real money instead of having to earn it.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

Yes, it's the definition of pay to win!!! Right now the best gear in the game is crafted and must be bought on the marketboard for non crafters. Food is the same, as are certain potions, many gears, etc. So, being able to buy gil (or tokens to sell for gil) is most definitely pay to win. Paying for gil means pretty much anything on the marketboard is yours for real money instead of having to earn it.

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.. so where do you get real money for free?.. Cause I gotta put in hours for mine.

And no, that is NOT the definition. You get no advantage to "beat" other players. Someone with the time to put in the game can make just as much currency and purchase the same upgrades. "Pay to win" is about having an unfair advantage (usually PVP, such as having weapons you can use against people that are ONLY available for real money) or having a "paywall" that cannot be surmounted without paying real money, not about paying money INSTEAD of putting in time.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

And no, that is NOT the definition. You get no advantage to "beat" other players. Someone with the time to put in the game can make just as much currency and purchase the same upgrades. "Pay to win" is about having an unfair advantage (usually PVP, such as having weapons you can use against people that are ONLY available for real money) or having a "paywall" that cannot be surmounted without paying real money, not about paying money INSTEAD of putting in time.

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Actually, "P2W" is as it sounds. A game where a person can literally buy their way into the top tiers. It's not like it's necessary for them to be strictly superior to the long-playing, elite gamers. That is simply an extreme version of it. It's enough that they can become elite entirely based on their real-life purchases. If the top-end gear, pots, food and what not were all sold for real life money, even though you can get them in game, it still would be technically a "pay to win" game. Cause you "bought" your superiority over majority of the population.

That being said, it would NOT be the case in Final Fantasy XIV. The effort required to get the gear that can be bought is "manageable", while it is significantly inferior to things that are gotten only in game. It's entirely possible to NEVER spend a single gil or level ANY of the crafter classes. Never to touch any gear that can be sold. And still end up with the best character in the game. On the contrary, a person could have unlimited supply of gil and still be sub-par, just because there's an unbreakable wall. The best gear cannot be bought with gil.

The best way to combat RMT would be to implement countermeasures against the gil farming bots.

The amount of gil they gain on a daily basis is absurd, as they can run through the entire MSQ in less then a day which nets them a few million per character and with 20+ bots active simultaneously per server most of the time...

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Actually, "P2W" is as it sounds. A game where a person can literally buy their way into the top tiers. It's not like it's necessary for them to be strictly superior to the long-playing, elite gamers. That is simply an extreme version of it. It's enough that they can become elite entirely based on their real-life purchases. If the top-end gear, pots, food and what not were all sold for real life money, even though you can get them in game, it still would be technically a "pay to win" game. Cause you "bought" your superiority over majority of the population.

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did you.. just..
http://i.imgur.com/sUiarl4.jpg


arguably "P2W" be will subjective to the individual you ask. As I experienced it as it was developing it was used almost exclusively when referring to games you HAD to spend money on and slowly started to involve being "better" than others quickly. .. but as I've said it's subjective.

people will argue with you that the best gear IS the crafted stuff currently, fully overmelded (till raid release at least). BUT, as you have said, there is no wall to surmount . Gil is freely available to all players at an accessible rate.