Two Months In: Will You Reconsider GL IV?

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Originally Posted by Xau

it had changed, on arr and hw monk had 2 dots, 3 if we count fracture, now we have one, what this means?
and let's not exclude the fact what the dev team said about removing useless skills, yet monk got almost nothing of that, we still keep the useless skills meanwhile they removed the ones what made the job more interesting and fun

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Hate to break it to you.
Monk only lost two dots total. Fracture and Touch of death. It only had three dots total, and it kept demolish. Fracture was also arguably a dps loss at only 200 potency.


Most classes had the same treatment. Dark Knights lost scourge, Ninjas lost Mutilate. Warriors lost their enhanced fracture as well as monk. Dragoons lost phlebotomize and fracture. Summoners and scholars lost Bio.

So when you say the class lost it's identity, you are absolutely wrong. It lost one dot, and one cross class dot. Every class lost cross class skills that made it feel better. Machinists lost Hawk Eye, Raging strikes and quite a few other skills that just increased their damage by 15-20% each per skill.

Monk's bread and butter was not changed. You lost one dot, that you used maybe every 30 seconds. At most you used it made 10 times during a fight. And if you want to bring up useless skills, Monk is not the only class that lost useful skills, and kept useless ones. At least one Ilm punch is a guaranteed stun. Whm's Red Mage's and Summoner's Bind is good for what exactly? The stun is useful in solo. Physic on Summoner at level 70 replenishes 500 hp or right around 1% of their hp.

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

And if you want to bring up useless skills, Monk is not the only class that lost useful skills, and kept useless ones. At least one Ilm punch is a guaranteed stun. .

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Monk is still the class with the most useless skills, SB didn't address this whatsoever and made it worse if anything

One Ilm punch had a guaranteed stun added, yes, but keep in mind that its bound to a specific form so you can only use it every 3rd GCD which makes it extremely unreliable.
Arm of the destroyer still has a way too high TP cost for its potency.
Fist stances are basically obsolete, you're still in FoF 99% of the time, 1% being the time you're in FoE because of RoE. SE's sad attempt to make any other stance viable didn't change anything.
Tornado kick was already extremely niche but with RoE it sees even less use.
Purification is also completely useless since running out of TP is practically impossible now.

Thats 7 skills you never use.

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Originally Posted by Xeinon

Monk is still the class with the most useless skills, SB didn't address this whatsoever and made it worse if anything

Thats 7 skills you practically never use.

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Riddle of earth has it's uses. Mostly when Earth's reply is used to mitigate damage, or extend GL3 duration.

Tornado kick is still niche. But It still has uses. Monk's use Tornado kick in O3s savage before phases they are turned into animals.

The rest of the skills you mentioned, are free game to be adjusted to be useful. However, most classes had skills that were essential to them, regulated to cross class skills. Every healer had their own Esuna and Mana Regen before SB. Now they have to Cross class them, with protect.

Tanks need to cross class defensive cooldowns.

Useless skills are bad, and In my opinion should be changed to be useful. But ultimately has no effect on the core of a class, if the class never needed them to function.

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Riddle of earth has it's uses. Mostly when Earth's reply is used to mitigate damage, or extend GL3 duration.

Tornado kick is still niche. But It still has uses. Monk's use Tornado kick in O3s savage before phases they are turned into animals.

The rest of the skills you mentioned, are free game to be adjusted to be useful. However, most classes had skills that were essential to them, regulated to cross class skills. Every healer had their own Esuna and Mana Regen before SB. Now they have to Cross class them, with protect.

Tanks need to cross class defensive cooldowns.

Useless skills are bad, and In my opinion should be changed to be useful. But ultimately has no effect on the core of a class, if the class never needed them to function.

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If you count niche skills then technically no skill is useless. But, it would be like saying a Paladin's Tempered Will is useful as a situational skill or Break on a Healer is useful as a role skill. Chances are, its not going to make that much of a difference. In fact, you're probably never going to touch it because Bind and Heavy aren't that much of an issue in PvE content. The problem is that most of the skills are far too situational to be useful.Tornado Kick is only useful if you've memorized a boss pattern at which you are guaranteed to lose all 3 stacks of Greased Lightning. Riddle of Earth is only useful for unavoidable boss AoEs (you want to avoid damage whenever possible). The damage reduction is rarely ever a factor in surviving an attack. The Forbidden Chakra is only useful with Brotherhood or as a one off skill. Chakras are too unpredictable to be useful otherwise. Purification is worthless compared to Invigorate. One llm punch is form restricted and unless you waste a Perfect Balance, you're probably never going to get the stun effect off without dumb luck.

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Hate to break it to you.
Monk only lost two dots total. Fracture and Touch of death. It only had three dots total, and it kept demolish. Fracture was also arguably a dps loss at only 200 potency.

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Fracture was 220 potency and was a DPS gain. It was monk's third highest potency GCD. Even saying "fracture was arguably a DPS loss" proves you don't know what you are talking about.

Monk has become an extremely dull job without TOD and fracture. Knowing when to apply fracture with tod/demolish/dragon kick/snakes timers was a huge part of what made monk interesting and fun.

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Originally Posted by echo78

Fracture was 220 potency and was a DPS gain. It was monk's third highest potency GCD. Even saying "fracture was arguably a DPS loss" proves you don't know what you are talking about.

Monk has become an extremely dull job without TOD and fracture. Knowing when to apply fracture with tod/demolish/dragon kick/snakes timers was a huge part of what made monk interesting and fun.

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Fracture was arguably a dps loss, as it delays the rest of your skills and costed too much tp. It was what 100 tp back when it was a thing?

Yes it was an arguable dps loss. Also if two dots, that you only use every 18-30 seconds ruin your fun, you should play a different game. Stormblood removed a dot from every class.

I can regurgitate how Warrior, Dark Knight, Summoner the DOT class, Machinist, Ninja, Dragoon, Monk, Bard, all lost anywhere between one and two dots from their kit. You going to comment that Dragoon, Ninja, Warrior, and Bard are dull without their dots?

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Fracture was arguably a dps loss, as it delays the rest of your skills and costed too much tp. It was what 100 tp back when it was a thing?

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Fracture had a higher potency then every MNK GCD but demolish and tod. It was a DPS gain. Learn what the HW MNK rotation was like before you claim fracture is a DPS loss. It was also only 80 TP and the TP cost was rarely an issue.

IMO those two dots broke up the monotony of the current MNK rotation and made it more fun, especially with it being a priority system and timing them to go with buffs or missed positionals.

Anyway, I'd love to see GL4 added to MNK but I can't imagine the dev's changing anything with MNK until 5.0. If 3.0 and 4.0 were any indication, its probably not worth getting your hopes up for GL4 in 5.0...

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

I can regurgitate how Warrior, Dark Knight, Summoner the DOT class, Machinist, Ninja, Dragoon, Monk, Bard, all lost anywhere between one and two dots from their kit. You going to comment that Dragoon, Ninja, Warrior, and Bard are dull without their dots?

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The difference between MNK and all those classes is that they all got their class expanded upon.
DRG got an expansion on Blood of the Dragon
NIN got Ninki and an expansion on its Mudras
WAR can now spam Fell Cleave like it's going out of season
BRDS got their songs to use now as actual attack abilities that enhance the entire playstyle of the class

What did MNK's get in this expansion? Slightly more frequent use on Forbidden Chakra

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

The difference between MNK and all those classes is that they all got their class expanded upon.
DRG got an expansion on Blood of the Dragon
NIN got Ninki and an expansion on its Mudras
WAR can now spam Fell Cleave like it's going out of season
BRDS got their songs to use now as actual attack abilities that enhance the entire playstyle of the class

What did MNK's get in this expansion? Slightly more frequent use on Forbidden Chakra

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Dragoon and Ninja also saw their basic GCD rotation expanded, Ninja got an additional second string combo and Dragoon has two combo finishers per combo. Monk just lost a GCD.

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Hate to break it to you.
Monk only lost two dots total. Fracture and Touch of death. It only had three dots total, and it kept demolish. Fracture was also arguably a dps loss at only 200 potency.
Most classes had the same treatment. Dark Knights lost scourge, Ninjas lost Mutilate. Warriors lost their enhanced fracture as well as monk. Dragoons lost phlebotomize and fracture. Summoners and scholars lost Bio.

So when you say the class lost it's identity, you are absolutely wrong. It lost one dot, and one cross class dot. Every class lost cross class skills that made it feel better. Machinists lost Hawk Eye, Raging strikes and quite a few other skills that just increased their damage by 15-20% each per skill.

Monk's bread and butter was not changed. You lost one dot, that you used maybe every 30 seconds. At most you used it made 10 times during a fight. And if you want to bring up useless skills, Monk is not the only class that lost useful skills, and kept useless ones. At least one Ilm punch is a guaranteed stun. Whm's Red Mage's and Summoner's Bind is good for what exactly? The stun is useful in solo. Physic on Summoner at level 70 replenishes 500 hp or right around 1% of their hp.

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this job as i said before, is not fun as how it is now(for us monk veterans), is hellish monotonous, there is no variation at all on how it plays, nothing what makes it interesting, all the job has gets memorizated and we do not need to watch for any variation, and the only variation we have does not even requires to be watched because we hear a *ding* for when is ready to be used, just look at any of the jobs you mentioned, they got removed some skills yes, but at the same time they got stuff what enhanced their playstile further, to make it more fun, monk got anything of that?, not really, even worse we didn't got any new attack, just depend even more on TFC, what now is linked to a double rng mechanic(get crits on your weaponskills to get a chance to get a chakra stack) and as well linked to another rng mechanic(brotherhood, 30% chance to get chakra stacks from any party member weaponskills), we have one of the slowest aoes the game has since we need to use single target in between arm of the destroyer(only useful when there are 7 or more targets) and rockbreaker, we have the fists what has no reason to exist, they could have been become traits even, since there is no reason to use fists of earth or fists of wind at all, one ilm punch is outright useless, even the role skill leg sweep is more usefull, why? one ilm punch requires the raptor form to use it, making it a unreliable stun skill, riddle of fire makes the playstile of monk boring because it slow us down, when monk is all about hit weak, and hit fast, no one asked for a skill what traded speed for dmg, even worse, perfect balance recast time didn't got reduced, whit a redution it might get a dps increase probably(because of tornado kick, but they can change the dmg tornado kick do if they do that), just look at the other jobs what has some kind of timer, they can recover it whit a somewhat ease(excluding dragoon life of dragon)

i am not saying this job is at the worst place, since there are other jobs on worst spots, like sumnoner, but that do not forbidden what the devs could make some(even if they are small) changes, something what the devs do not want to acknowledge the fact what monk needs changes to make it more fun

so i am sure you don't play monk at all, so dunno why you are even here, you will never understand why so many people wants this job to get rightful changes, so either just stop of be here, since almost everyone will disagree whit you or just start to play monk enough to understand the issues this job has

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Originally Posted by echo78

Anyway, I'd love to see GL4 added to MNK but I can't imagine the dev's changing anything with MNK until 5.0. If 3.0 and 4.0 were any indication, its probably not worth getting your hopes up for GL4 in 5.0...

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i agree, i doubt the devs will do any change to this job, and we will have to wait another 2 years to see any change