Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

If you're saying that identifying a bad DPS is possible, then you've missed the point that the OP is trying to make.

As a healer if I popped a Lucid Dreaming and I'm somehow attracting more aggro than the DPS by simply doing Healer DPS (And the occassional shield/Regen if needed), and whatever we're fighting is not dying as fast as a normal pace, then that can kinda show if a certain DPS is slacking.

The case for parsers really shouldn't be "hey, this makes it easy for me to call people out for poor performance".
it should be "hey this is showing me I'm not even close to what others are doing, I need to up my game"...

Sadly most of the arguments I've seen have been the former.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

And then there's another thing worth factoring in on these forums: voices on these forums are the -minority- of the player population. No matter how often you cite threads about healers whining about why they stopped healing, there are still healers healing and there are still people who want to play healers and keep playing healers because they find the playstyle fun.

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Yeah, I don't mean for this to be a thread about healers but a thread about how little rests on the shoulders of DPS players (like me) compared to the other two roles in the game.

But if s/he wanted an example of healers saying "'Eff this" and rolling something else, you CAN find it in the healer forum (and I did the same, really).

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

As a healer if I popped a Lucid Dreaming and I'm somehow attracting more aggro than the DPS by simply doing Healer DPS (And the occassional shield/Regen if needed), and whatever we're fighting is not dying as fast as a normal pace, then that can kinda show if a certain DPS is slacking.

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Yeah, if THAT happens, I think you can safely assume they're BOTH awful, heh...

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The case for parsers really shouldn't be "hey, this makes it easy for me to call people out for poor performance".
it should be "hey this is showing me I'm not even close to what others are doing, I need to up my game"...

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I'd like a personal parser to up my performance.

But I'm not even sure if parsers are what I'm asking for. I really just want to point out how unfair it is for healers and tanks to be playing roles where playing poorly will be noticed while it's extremely difficult to tell just HOW poorly a DPS player is doing, or even if they're truly doing poorly at all.

The way you know this is 100% true.

Someone who has a tank or healer job on one char will bring in a dps alt to level them up. It's always painfully obvious they are duoboxing since this is not a game you can easily play 2 chars at once, especially well, and if you think you are, you're not. The dps is horrendous since either the dps just stands there auto-attacking making the occasional move/standing in aoe/rotation is slow or the healer/tank faults on their duty when they shift attn., but no one bats an eye about it or says anything unless its the tank/heal screwing up cause they are paying too much attn. to the dps they are also playing.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

The way you know this is 100% true.

Someone who has a tank or healer job on one char will bring in a dps alt to level them up. It's always painfully obvious they are duoboxing since this is not a game you can easily play 2 chars at once, especially well, and if you think you are, you're not. The dps is horrendous since either the dps just stands there auto-attacking making the occasional move/standing in aoe/rotation is slow or the healer/tank faults on their duty when they shift attn., but no one bats an eye about it or says anything unless its the tank/heal screwing up cause they are paying too much attn. to the dps they are also playing.

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Is this actually a thing? I've never heard of it before and I can't imagine it is effective. Also why would you? If it's an alt they have MSQ to level up.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

The way you know this is 100% true.

Someone who has a tank or healer job on one char will bring in a dps alt to level them up. It's always painfully obvious they are duoboxing since this is not a game you can easily play 2 chars at once, especially well, and if you think you are, you're not. The dps is horrendous since either the dps just stands there auto-attacking making the occasional move/standing in aoe/rotation is slow or the healer/tank faults on their duty when they shift attn., but no one bats an eye about it or says anything unless its the tank/heal screwing up cause they are paying too much attn. to the dps they are also playing.

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I've never seen this happen in an MMO outside of EVE Online... do people actually do this here? I've seen plenty of bots, but never someone obviously controlling or attempting to control two characters at the same time.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Yeah, I don't mean for this to be a thread about healers but a thread about how little rests on the shoulders of DPS players (like me) compared to the other two roles in the game.

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That's true of most major MMORPGs, hence why DPS is always considered the non-essential role and can be easily replaced if found to be lacking. Also like most games, figuring out exact numbers requires a third-party add-on that is a ToS violation not just for this game, but the majority of MMORPGs on the market with games like WoW and Rift being among just a handful of exceptions.

What makes FFXIV seem like an exception is because the gap between damage among DPS jobs and damage from essential role jobs (a.k.a. tanks and healers) is much smaller compared to other MMORPGs, resulting in cases where greater improvement can be gained from healers dealing damage and tanks maxing their damage rather than trying to have a DPS player pushing their limits even further. That might sound bad, but it's actually a good thing as something that promotes finer gameplay among tank and healer players.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

But if s/he wanted an example of healers saying "'Eff this" and rolling something else, you CAN find it in the healer forum (and I did the same, really).

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Yeah, just like how you can find threads like this one.

Sorry, but I need to be really blunt here: with all the whining and moaning threads you seem to have posted, maybe this game just isn't for you. Honestly, it seems like you spend more time making threads like this than you do actually playing the game. I'll admit I'm probably not the best spokesperson for this given how much I post here (usually while waiting on DPS queues) and how much I've slowed down in the game to keep myself from burning out (and also waiting for that blasted server transfer lock to end), but I really feel like someone needed to point that out.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

But I'm not even sure if parsers are what I'm asking for. I really just want to point out how unfair it is for healers and tanks to be playing roles where playing poorly will be noticed while it's extremely difficult to tell just HOW poorly a DPS player is doing, or even if they're truly doing poorly at all.

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It's telling that you can still kill a boss if a DPS goes down permanently, or a trial even if half the DPS falls off or whatever, but you lose your tank or your healer and it's game over (barring certain fights, or RDMs.. )

I will say yes, that's why DPS has a hour long queue : not that hard to play.
is that what you're going for? I dunno if it's "heaven" though, people still give DPS a hard time, it's just a little less quantifiable than healer or Tank.

I think just in general : People like to blame others.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

I've never seen this happen in an MMO outside of EVE Online... do people actually do this here? I've seen plenty of bots, but never someone obviously controlling or attempting to control two characters at the same time.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Is this actually a thing? I've never heard of it before and I can't imagine it is effective. Also why would you? If it's an alt they have MSQ to level up.

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We did this all the time in XI (there is was easy to do and many ppl did) and it definitely is a thing here. I know more than few people from various LS and FC I have been in that talk openly about it. And have been in dungeons with people who admit to it when called out on it, usually they laugh it off and keep going since they are a tank and have that irreplaceable mentality. Most try to macro combos to lessen the work, but they are usually easy to spot if you pay attn. esp when they are running from pull to pull and 1 char is obviously on follow or are running into walls, over running and such constantly.