Why is NIN considered OP or highly viable?

Well Ninja has pretty much all pros and no downsides right now. Its single target is good, it's AOE is good, Huton is incredibly resilient to Mechanics, aggro shenanigans and Trick Attack,a 400 potency attack that inflicts a 10 second 10% damage up Debuff every 60 seconds. The comparable buffs, Brotherhood and Battle Litany are weaker in effect (5% Physical only or just increasing crit rate), have longer recasts (90 seconds and 180 seconds) and require all party members to be within range.

There's basically no downside to the Job, at all. If anything absolutely needs a nerf it's Ninja.

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Originally Posted by Oscura

Of course buffs have advantageous situations. I thought that was obvious.

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I wouldn't be too sure about that, I have read several posts in boards/reddit and most people didn't seem to know that there is even a difference, sad but true ._. I even saw people believing that TA is a flat 10% raiddps boost.
TA is huge no question but it's also not entirety true that it's up on CD every 60 sec. in a realistic fight because you have to actually perform a Suiton Ninjutsu to be able to cast it and also be able to hit the target from rear.
It happens that your mudra CD doesn't line up to TA CD which can result in a delay which can vary. If you wait and delay your Ninjutsu for too long it may work but result in a personal dps loss.
Then there are also mechanics that force you to delay it (like the side switching in susano when a player gets the purple mark+lightning tether)
True North helps with such situation but more then often it will be on CD due to 150s... and if you don't hit it from rear it's rip TA so you have to delay it again in terms of safety which may result in loosing one TA for the whole fight in relation to the
encounter length.
(Don't know though why they kept TA as the only skill that work that way, they changed it for DRG/MNK in the past, that you keep the buff/debuff even when you miss positional and only lose the potency)

For example, the best SAM log Susanoo:
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/k94fg...bility=1000638

The Encounter length is 7:16 , people would expect that TA was 7 times up that fight but it was 6 times due to mechanics/delays

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

This is bad reasoning. They were talking about solo dps.

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Wasn't that though what jobs in the game were balanced arround? According to what you are saying Bards for example should be complaining that their "solo" low dps and ignore the fact how they perform in a raid setting?
I'm talking about brotherhood here, since it's designed that way, that you need other player for it to make it work even if you leave Nin out. Also how meaningful is a ~2:30 parse when realistic fights take 7+min.... Take BLM for example, they are getting buffed soon, regarding that logic they should be nerfed since they do higher dmg on the SSS?....

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Originally Posted by Sam26

snip

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I order to make this fair, you should subtract the downtime due to cutscenes and stuff.
Sure, NIN won't TA during transitions, but no one will do anything during transitions (other than lose buffs and get pissed off), so it's irrelevant.
Downtime is like what, 30s for Susie with all the sword nonsense and then the explosion?
So the length of the fight where you're actually fighting is like 6 minutes something.
For that duration, you'd expect 6 TAs, and that log has 6 TAs.

i wonder who will be the next target of who is too strong *eat pop corn*

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i wonder who will be the next target of who is too strong *eat pop corn*

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White Mages, obviously. With their leet DPS, no one else stands a chance. It's so good, people are constantly complaining about it already!

That is how the meta game works. You being flippant and sarcastic because you don't agree just shows that it has nothing to do with you, and you should be happy with what you get. There will always be a strongest and weakest, easiest and hardest etc. Sometimes the difference is too large which warrants balancing measures such as nerfs n buffs. Right now NIN is too strong and SAM and RDM are close behind (MNK also). BRD is ahead of RDM when a DRG is involved, but right now DRG is dog shite so this isn't a common scenario. These classes (not DRG) are also the easiest and most lenient classes in a fight. NIN can also manage agro that helps tank DPS quite a bit and RDM can raise and cure. People who play good classes will hate the meta changing and those who play bad will love it. Perhaps after this patch MCH indeed becomes too strong, and then after savage people will be calling a nerf. There is nothing wrong with this and its the nature of pretty much any online game that is aiming for balance.


The issue is, people need to stop being children when they hear something they don't like and understand that things like these forums exist specifically to discuss this stuff.

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Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

That is how the meta game works. You being flippant and sarcastic because you don't agree just shows that it has nothing to do with you, and you should be happy with what you get. There will always be a strongest and weakest, easiest and hardest etc. Sometimes the difference is too large which warrants balancing measures such as nerfs n buffs. Right now NIN is too strong and SAM and RDM are close behind (MNK also). BRD is ahead of RDM when a DRG is involved, but right now DRG is dog shite so this isn't a common scenario. These classes (not DRG) are also the easiest and most lenient classes in a fight. NIN can also manage agro that helps tank DPS quite a bit and RDM can raise and cure. People who play good classes will hate the meta changing and those who play bad will love it. Perhaps after this patch MCH indeed becomes too strong, and then after savage people will be calling a nerf. There is nothing wrong with this and its the nature of pretty much any online game that is aiming for balance.


The issue is, people need to stop being children when they hear something they don't like and understand that things like these forums exist specifically to discuss this stuff.

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Well said. I always find it funny how much people stress out fighting the inevitable.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

White Mages, obviously. With their leet DPS, no one else stands a chance. It's so good, people are constantly complaining about it already!

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*offer popcorn*

*munch munch* who care of balance in a pve game since the goal in the end is to beat the challenge together, not to be the best alone, no?

I'm not a NIN player myself, but this topic sure taught me about Trick Attack being such a powerful debuff, and the usefulness of Shadewalker. As a tank, I just need to get used to trusting NINs and execute more DPS rotations. NINs won't be a "must-have" for my party, but always a welcome addition that will fit right in.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

who care of balance in a pve game since the goal in the end is to beat the challenge together, not to be the best alone, no?

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I wholeheartedly agree. No matter how powerful nor weak you are as a class, don't let it deter you from playing what you love most. After all, we only need to beat the challenge together, right?