I think it's less that and more you're being way too hard on yourself and it's not having an effect. SE needs to patch some self worth into you guys, we all think you're great, you should too! D:
Bards cant hear their own songs or voice?
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07-13-2017, 07:09 AMElasmoFan
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07-13-2017, 07:18 AMHyoMinParkBard is and has always been a support-type DPS job in FFXIV. Yes, we contribute to DPS, but our main role, especially in a static-like environment, has always been to support our party members. Before it was Mage's/Army's for MP/TP refresh, Foe's to up caster DPS, Battle Voice to augment song's effects, Warden's Paeon for WAR's Pacification. Now our songs buff party members, Troubadour gives added support/defensive effects to them (and us, as of 4.01), Nature's Minne is a 20%/15 second healing buff for a tank. Refresh and Tactician replace Mage's/Army's and Palisade is a defensive buff for tanks. Bard is a support-based DPS role, and always has been in FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyalios
If we benefited from the 2% crit buff (and, by that, BV when used), SE would take away from us elsewhere for the sake of balance. I'd rather not take a 10% damage reduction in exchange for a 2% buff to my crit rate. Bad BRDs before were already terrible about NOT singing because of the damage reduction. If they added that back in as a way to balance out us benefiting from our own crit/direct hit buffs, you would be sure to see people go back to being Silent Bards. -
07-13-2017, 07:27 AMFredco191
They can hear the Troubadour songs why not Battle Voice and their actual songs?
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07-13-2017, 07:28 AMMikhaill...Wat. Have you not seen all their new set? It screams support lmao.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyalios
They are a support DPS even moreso thanks to the amazing rework of Bard in SB.
Giving us ALL this will make Bard OP and MCH would be placed even lower in love scale.
I don't understand your Dragoon and Bard thing, Dragoon doesn't give all these utilities like bard.
We need to be talking about MCH and it's garbo DPS. Let's not get greedy with how Bard works right now, it's near perfect.
Lest you want us to be penalized again about singing and killing our DPS. :^) -
07-13-2017, 07:30 AMEnyalios
Sooo dragoon is a support now too? It gives litany, has goad, gives piercing buff.
Why can we not simply have things as they are plus the crit buff and DH. Why on earth do the songs need to have negative effects as a trade off? Where has that ever been implied? No having them won't cause too much of a DPS gain to require nerfs elsewhere.
P.S there's no support role in ffxiv, you queue as a DPS -
07-13-2017, 07:32 AMEnyalios
Oh I love forums btw, it's why I read them. You get the OP who has an idea and the only people who respond are negative know it alls ;)
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07-13-2017, 08:02 AMHyoMinParkBy that logic, WAR/NIN/SAM are all "support" as well, because they give slashing debuffs, which do NOT benefit an entire party, only certain jobs. Compare that to BRD, our songs/BV benefit an ENTIRE party (save ourselves). A DRG's piercing debuff benefits them, BRDs, and MCHs, but will not benefit a MNK, NIN, SAM or a PLD. And none of these debuffs (slashing, piercing, blunt) benefit casters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyalios
(Btw, Disembowel got nerfed in Stormblood from 10% to 5%.)
Battle Litany is a buff, yes, but a DRG has never had the support potential BRD has had since ARR Launch. And with the launch of Stormblood, BRD is even more of a support-based job now more than ever. If the addition of Nature's Minne and the cross-role Refresh, Tactician, and Palisade fail to show you that, then I don't know what to tell you. Goad is a role ability now shared among all melee DPS (formerly, it was only something NINs had), but that doesn't make them a support-type job like BRD. No job is on-par with current BRD when it comes to support; not even poor MCH, who is in desperate need of some TLC from SE.
For balance. If the developers have shown anything over the course of this game's lifetime, it's that "Where SE giveth, SE also taketh away." No job is allowed to have amazing support capabilities and be OP (which, a BRD benefiting from its own song buffs--2% crit and BV Direct Hit--while maintaining the power it has now--which is very good given that we are fully mobile again--and having amazing support utility, would be considered OP). Just look at MNK pre-SB. Raw damage, virtually no support (outside of Mantra). Look at SAM. Raw damage, absolutely no support (and this was the developer's intentional design, stated as such by them in a Live Letter).Quote:
Why can we not simply have things as they are plus the crit buff and DH. Why on earth do the songs need to have negative effects as a trade off? Where has that ever been implied? No having them won't cause too much of a DPS gain to require nerfs elsewhere.
A fun fact: when ARR launched, BRD was the strongest DPS out of all of them. SE nerfed them hard after 2.0 because of BRDs free mobility; it was considered too OP for them to have the damage potential they used to have coupled with the ability to move whenever they pleased. That is the trade-off: free mobility for lower personal damage.
While there were aspects of DRG and NIN in HW that were considered "support" or "static utility," note how neither did as much raw damage as, say, a MNK, who had virtually no support/utility (this is taking into consideration that the DRG, NIN, and MNK would all be equally geared and skilled players). SE will not allow jobs to have incredible support while maintaining high damage (again, see BRD 2.0 nerf). There will always be a trade-off somewhere.
To expand on your Battle Litany example, yes, it buffs the DRG and nearby party members, but at the cost of a 180 second cooldown. BRD songs, with proper rotation, have a virtual 100% uptime. It would be "OP" for BRDs to consistently have their own 2% crit buff and 15% Battle Voice Direct Hit buff 100% of the time. Inb4 you say that BV has the same cooldown as Litany, therefore BRDs should be able to benefit from that: BV only affects party members who are under the effect of Mage's Ballad, Army's Paeon, or the Wanderer's Minuet. To give BRDs the Battle Voice buff would be to give them the song buffs as well. Again, OP.
Bard is a support-type DPS job, as is its fellow ranged DPS MCH (although to a lesser extent). If you fail to see that the job of a BRD (and MCH) has always been to support its party members, then you haven't been playing BRD correctly at all.Quote:
P.S there's no support role in ffxiv, you queue as a DPS
Taken from the Stormblood Bard Job Guide: "The word "bard" ordinarily puts folk in mind of those itinerant minstrels, fair of voice and nimble of finger, who earn their coin performing in taverns and the halls of great lords. Few know, however, that bards in fact trace their origins back to the bowmen of eld, who sang in the heat of battle to fortify the spirits of their companions." -
07-13-2017, 08:17 AMEnyalios
You sir are a mong who cannot sense sarcasm. Thank you for showing the world how really special you are /clap :)
FYI, to say it isn't a support doesn't mean I don't use the tools available to me. But to say it is t a support is also true because this isn't ffxi and we're not spoony bards from FF4 -
07-13-2017, 08:23 AMMikhaillNo, because you're having a hard time for some odd reason understanding why BRD is the way it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyalios
Then have a tude when we are trying to explain to you and Hyo's explanation hit the nail on the head, 100%.
As seen here:
So yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyalios
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07-13-2017, 08:24 AMHyoMinParkThis is textual conversation. Tone isn't the easiest to infer from text.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyalios
At least I don't resort to name-calling. .-. Have a good day, sir.