Why the other casters need buffs and Red Mage does not need a nerf.

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Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

NIN is nearly equivalent in DPS to RDM (~40 dps less). Do you want them to give up their utility to be more useful? You're arguing for nerfs to one class when you should be arguing for buffs to the other two casters.

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NIN is overtuned and needs to get nerfed. RDM is in a similar level of OP due to how immense his damage is in relation to the utility. And no, they can keep their utility, but they need to give up some numbers to balance it out, objectively speaking.

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Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

I think "hilariously strong" is a bit of exaggeration on your part. It's useful, balance level strong? No. Stop assuming they're not going to tune encounters to match buffs or nerfs, that's redundant from any perspective.

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Both TA and Embolden are superior in nearly every way to AoE balance due to being predictable. In content, an AST would be lucky to get two AoE balance in a ten minute fight, compared to Ninja's 11 TA and RDM's 6 Embolden.

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Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

Where are you getting those DPS numbers from?

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https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/15/#boss=1036

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Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

NIN is nearly equivalent in DPS to RDM (~40 dps less). Do you want them to give up their utility to be more useful? You're arguing for nerfs to one class when you should be arguing for buffs to the other two casters.

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The problem is as already pointed out, this isn't always practical. If you buff everyone else, the game gets easier, boss balance is thrown off, now all the bosses need to be rebalanced too. If they're changed though tanks and healers may not be able to sustain through the fight, necessitating more changes. People don't ask for nerfs out of spite, they do so because usually it's one class that's above the curve. They ask for buffs when it's one class below the curve.

I'd agree, but as far as survivability I'm mostly noticing tanks dying and healers struggling in the following instances: Someone dun goofed, or the tank isn't using the tank stance, or the obvious "they're bad". I honestly think they could give BLM about 100-200 more dps without destroying the games difficulty. I'd rather the devs take more time to tune encounters and classes so that each person is satisfied rather than making a hasty adjustment to one class and making everyone who mains it less satisfied to appease the cries of people playing other classes.

I get that people still want the challenging content to remain challenging, but the current end tier content is mostly still in development, it's not as if it's just going to be easy right off the bat with what we have currently.

FFlogs are broken because of Balance and pumping certain classes over others.

Thunda and Yorumi, you need to back off. Prismatic's points are 100% valid and backed in fact, while yours are backed by conjecture and opinion.

They "Nerfed" WAR and DRK and see how happy people are about it? oh, yea they aren't. If there is an imbalance in a class they should be brought UP to accommodate. not the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

Snip.

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That's incorrect. It's a proven fact that NIN is overtuned for what they offer to the raid, which is only slightly better than what RDM has. Many NIN mains agree that they're a tad too far. My opinion is backed by objective fact and analysis of data, not by anything else.

Both NIN/RDM need some serious looking at.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

FFlogs are broken because of Balance and pumping certain classes over others.

Thunda and Yorumi, you need to back off. Prismatic's points are 100% valid and backed in fact, while yours are backed by conjecture and opinion.

They "Nerfed" WAR and DRK and see how happy people are about it? oh, yea they aren't. If there is an imbalance in a class they should be brought UP to accommodate. not the other way around.

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There's balance vs non-balance parsing now. No one can use that excuse anymore. I don't know why I have to keep saying this every time.

As for RDM being too strong, I don't see how anyone can say otherwise. I've had two tanks die in Lakshmi EX, the SAM ended up tanking and I revived one tank while a healer got the other, since the other healer didn't have swiftcast. SAM died? I res'd him too. Popped lucid dreaming and the dps loss was worth if it only just to keep everyone alive. No other class has such an easy time doing such a thing.

Embolden is hilariously strong and it's easily one of the best buffs ever made into this game. Especially since NIN is basically required and SAM is so strong, both of those classes piggyback off of it nicely.

Ninja is hilariously overtuned and has been required in every raid comp ever since its inception just because of Trick Attack.

I agree they should buff other classes and not nerf classes first and foremost, as I said in the SAM thread, but if RDM/NIN got nerfed I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed. For the record though, most people are never happy about nerfs. Nerfs are never done to make people happy.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

They "Nerfed" WAR and DRK and see how happy people are about it? oh, yea they aren't. If there is an imbalance in a class they should be brought UP to accommodate. not the other way around.

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Well again this is working off the assumption that nerfs are done to be vindictive and that no one has ever thought to buff classes. Nerfing or buffing a class needs to be done with minimal impact to the game because the more things that change the more things can go wrong. If you were to buff every class in the game to accomodate one single OP class not only is it a lot more work but now you throw off the balance of every monster in the game too, and every fight. It becomes an endless feedback loop. Furthermore the war/drk people are upset not because of a change in output but because they were made weaker than pld.

I'd also add that fflogs average over many fights is the closest thing to objective data we're ever going to get. If that data isn't objective then what is exactly? Just saying based on nothing that embolden doesn't do much?

I think "hilariously strong" is a bit of exaggeration on your part. It's useful, balance level strong? No. Stop assuming they're not going to tune encounters to match buffs or nerfs, that's redundant from any perspective. FFlogs appears to have really high standard deviation, just comparing the number of parses for each classes, the new ones (which logically would be more popular since they're new) have significantly more parses than the preceding jobs, in some cases almost exceeding 3 to 1 ratio FFlogs is not currently accurate.

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Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

Stop assuming they're not going to tune encounters to match buffs or nerfs, that's redundant from any perspective.

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Why is that a safe assumption? They said they didn't add a new healer or tank to focus on balance and those two roles are the most incompetently screwed up roles in the game right now. The overall balance across the whole game has never really been so screwed up why would it be safe to assume at this point that SE will doing anything in particular?

You're proving my own point, that the cards are off the table. You don't know what will happen, I don't know what will happen. I know what makes sense though, just adjusting class balance and assuming the content doesn't need to be tuned at all is asinine beyond belief. You really should drop the cynicism.