Gathering in SB worry, HP/ def/ GP scaling. Deep vigor reexamining?

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

If you were getting hit through stealth while already interacting with a node, then you clearly didn't have stealth on.
You also completely glanced over the part where I said "It was especially good during ARR as a consistent route of getting the HQ items used to turn in for the higher ilvl gathering tools." The bolded part being the most important part. It was a consistent, but slightly slower way of getting the HQ items for turn ins during ARR, due to the complete lack of RNG in that rotation.

I also have no idea what you're getting at with this normal node change. Normal (non-leve) nodes have always been 4 hits, unspoiled nodes have always been 6 hits.

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I did not glance over anything, this is not 2.0 is it? This is 3.0+ going on 4.0 while having no upgrades to the GP issue 50-60 when it should have been.

I am pretty sure adamantite has no AoE, Yes I seen that too but I never got hit there because no AoE that I am aware of. It is not the same for Lumythrite Ore node and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node. Do not tell me I did not stealth before the node when I did. I had stealth on, I clicked the node, it aoe, it took stealth off, then it aggored me and kill me.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Uhhhhh because without any gear equipped your max GP is ONLY 400? CP doesn't count on that argument since it regenerates after every single craft. Gathering is done out there on the dangerous field, crafting is done in safe areas, unless you're a badass.

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Yes I know, and when we need 600+ gp, why does it go to 400? it is not balanced (required gp use vs what you get) I do not care if 400 is the base, my point is GP is too slow and abilities cost too much for that speed. This is not level 50 cap anymore, it is now 60 going on 70. If my gear is enough to hold 650 gp , I should start there.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Yes I know, and when we need 600+ gp, why does it go to 400? it is not balanced (required gp use vs what you get) I do not care if 400 is the base, my point is GP is too slow and abilities cost too much for that speed. This is not level 50 cap anymore, it is now 60 going on 70. If my gear is enough to hold 650 gp , I should start there.

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Watered Cordial, Cordial, Hi Cordial?

Watered Cordial HQ only has a 2 min 6 second cooldown and recovers 200 GP HQ. More than enough time to cooldown before another node, or even if you're trying to get two nodes at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Watered Cordial, Cordial, Hi Cordial?

Watered Cordial HQ only has a 2 min 6 second cooldown and recovers 200 GP HQ. More than enough time to cooldown before another node, or even if you're trying to get two nodes at the same time.

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I craft my own HQs, thanks, it is not enough. They put too many rare nodes, lol

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Yes I know, and when we need 600+ gp, why does it go to 400? it is not balanced (required gp use vs what you get) I do not care if 400 is the base, my point is GP is too slow and abilities cost too much for that speed.

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Because 400 is enough for a lv 1 gatherer who have just started. GP increase with gear, not with level. And everytime you don't have gear with GP on you start at 400

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I did not glance over anything, this is not 2.0 is it? This is 3.0+ going on 4.0 while having no upgrades to the GP issue 50-60 when it should have been.

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I gave an example on how it was useful in 2.x, and how the same example can be applied to 3.x. It's a consistent, but slower way to obtain HQ mats without any RNG involved.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I am pretty sure adamantite has no AoE, Yes I seen that too but I never got hit there because no AoE that I am aware of.

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Go and pull the mob near the adamantite node, wait a few seconds, and it'll cast a frontal cone AoE. You usually don't see this because most players who accidentally aggro it were smart enough to sprint away.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

It is not the same for Lumythrite Ore node and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node.

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Never had any stealth-related issues with either of these nodes.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Do not tell me I did not stealth before the node when I did. I had stealth on, I clicked the node, it aoe, it took stealth off, then it aggored me and kill me.

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Sorry, but you either found some rare bug, or you really didn't have stealth up in time.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Yes I know, and when we need 600+ gp, why does it go to 400? it is not balanced (required gp use vs what you get) I do not care if 400 is the base, my point is GP is too slow and abilities cost too much for that speed. This is not level 50 cap anymore, it is now 60 going on 70. If my gear is enough to hold 650 gp , I should start there.

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That was already answered. It's 400 GP because that's the character's base GP, the amount you'd have without any GP increasing gear equipped. The servers likely don't save how much GP a character has with gear equipped as a way to reduce server load. It's much easier for it to just look at the base GP value and start with that upon changing to a DoL class.

Why it can't work the same as CP might also be a leftover from 2.x, when GP always started at 0, while CP was always designed to be at 100% when swapping to a DoH class/finishing a craft.

The rate at which GP regenerates is also used by SE to limit the amount of unspoiled nodes players can obtain.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

The rate at which GP regenerates is also used by SE to limit the amount of unspoiled nodes players can obtain.

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If that is the real reason, it fails at doing that. Something needs to be reworked when it comes to gathering then. Also I am concerned they are depending on these nodes too much to try to control a failing economy. The reason people rarely make stuff to begin with is because there is not a lot of demand for it. (If people rarely make something, materials are rarely used, so no matter how much you limit a material, it will flood if much more is being gathered then used)

Most people take the free hand me gear route making demand for crafted made battle gear really low. It is only demanded by world firsts when it is new. That is the only time the artificial supply limit does anything. After a week or so bots flood it too much and ends up not mattering anymore. I can gather cycle nodes all day 24/7 every min, flying node to node, and something I used to do esp when I needed scripts because how convent the time spacing is. I do not do this anymore because the price of the gathering items is so low, when I feel like crafting something I just buy them. The only thing I bother to gather and watch time to time anymore is Volcanic Rock Salt because of the high yield per swing you get, making it more valuable then any other node currently.

So even with the supply limit, these rare nodes become unproductive to gather from unless you play literally 24/7 and have nothing to do as you wait for stuff to sell, assuming you have 8 retainers on 8 chrs filled. (Then x that by 2 for people that do that on 2 accounts, and yes that is a thing) The reason is opportunity cost, how long does it take me to gather node to node (the gp potions is a very tiny factor in this since they are cheap as dirt to make) going from node to node does take time and it does add up and should be a factor if something is productive to do and compare the total sales to do something else? I rather make 60k+ just taking 30 sec to do something over going node to node gathering from these folklore nodes and so on, that takes minutes + time and get 1/4 the gil I get off 30 seconds. Again the reason this happens is because as a big picture, FFXIV's economy is bad. This is not me saying you can't make money, oh you can make TONS of money if you wanted, more then you know what to do with, if you put the effort into it, that is why it fails, people sitting on too much gil with nothing to do with it, so the motivation of making gil is limited to those that want something mindless/ and or bots. I doono what SE was thinking with the rare nodes to begin with and hope what they achieve, but they do not sell much more then common node items like Mythrite Sand. One can even argue miniing Mythrite Sand all day will net you more gil then the rare nodes since you can gather so much with little loss to traveling. I have not exactly mathed that out but ya.... that will only show how worthless of an effort it was making the rare nodes and folklore nodes for the long term effect (I conceded the idea that they effect short term, about 1 week of release, after that the time node concept pretty much has no impact on the economy and a large part of that is lack of need of buying crafted gear.)

How many times do I need repeat myself? I do not think adamantite node have aoe, it is not an issue there, I said it is an issue at the Lumythrite Ore node and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node.

I might hit no HQs once in a while but I rather have an average of 3+ It is generally a useless ability for people that gear gathering well. At 25 it is useless outside leves, is SE even aware of how little used these 2 abilities are ? It is like they rarely focus on crafting and gathering issues and balance issues.

I guess I should been more clear where I wanted go with this thread. Basically I am asking why is the system like this? It does not work for whatever goal they have. Why, no matter how much you gear, max meld do you have a 60-80% hit rate on gathering materials while leveling? Are they simply trying to artificially slow down the rate someone levels? (missing is no items but no exp, do the overall goal is nulled) Why not cut down the exp per hit and remove the rng aspect (max melds/hq gear =100% hit rate) Why do they try so hard to limit HQ materials? It does not do much in the wide aspect of things, same with the GP system in general. Why have an an ability cost more then your default GP and cost more then your starting point? It is basically a system to annoy people (cheated out of rng, 0 gp on BS death, etc) with little to no reason other then an idea that it effects how much items come in the system. They do no control on how meany items LEAVE the system, so no matter what limits they try set, it does not work because SE does no encouragement to have players craft with so much hand me stuff.

Why is it a 15 yield per 30 mins per character =400 gil each? (and even has an opportunity cost with red scripts/foils and the market is still overflooded) Because no one uses them enough so people and bots flood the market.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

If that is the real reason, it fails at doing that.

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One of the reasons. Not the reason. Did you even read my post?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

How many times do I need repeat myself? I do not think adamantite node have aoe, it is not an issue there, I said it is an issue at the Lumythrite Ore node and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node.

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You can repeat it as many times as you want, but you'd still be wrong.
http://i.imgur.com/wKsb6mn.png

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I might hit no HQs once in a while but I rather have an average of 3+

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That's good for you. A rotation involving RNG is supposed to have a higher average. Both rotations are viable, the one I suggested simply has a lower rate without any RNG factored in.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

It is generally a useless ability for people that gear gathering well. At 25 it is useless outside leves, is SE even aware of how little used these 2 abilities are ? It is like they rarely focus on crafting and gathering issues and balance issues.

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Except the fact that it's not useless. If you want to look at a useless ability, look at Last Ditch.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I guess I should been more clear where I wanted go with this thread. Basically I am asking why is the system like this? It does not work for whatever goal they have. Why, no matter how much you gear, max meld do you have a 60-80% hit rate on gathering materials while leveling? Are they simply trying to artificially slow down the rate someone levels? (missing is no items but no exp, do the overall goal is nulled) Why not cut down the exp per hit and remove the rng aspect (max melds/hq gear =100% hit rate)

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They expect you to use the abilities that have been given to you. The ones that increases gathering rate. If you're at 60% with max melds, you're trying to gather stuff that's way above your level.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Why have an an ability cost more then your default GP and cost more then your starting point? It is basically a system to annoy people (cheated out of rng, 0 gp on BS death, etc)

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I dunno, maybe because they also designed gear to give you stats, GP being one of them. As for BS deaths, those are on you for not being careful.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Why is it a 15 yield per 30 mins per character =400 gil each? (and even has an opportunity cost with red scripts/foils and the market is still overflooded) Because no one uses them enough so people and bots flood the market.

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Of course prices are gonna be lower, this late into the expansion. The stuff that's crafted with those mats aren't as worthwhile anymore, now that nearly all of the lockouts have been removed.

Hamada, why do you start an argument in every thread you make?

In ARR they added a feature wherein you can't get hit by AoEs while interacting with a gathering node or if your line is casted as long as the enemy has no aggro on you, this is a fact.

If you had the node window open and you got hit by an AoE then you had aggro on the monster, there are no ifs or buts, that's the only explanation, stop trying to argue otherwise, the feature will not disable itself just for you. If you had aggro then you didn't have stealth when you interacted with the node.

On deep vigor, I've used it when the node has bonus hits, so that by default means it has its uses.

Solid reason has a very good use, to "heal" a regular node, since you can leave the node when its 1 hit away, recover GP and heal the node to keep gathering from the same node. What's the point of this? Gathering hidden items like grade 5 carbonized matter, on top of what was mentioned before

If you don't like to use them no one is forcing you to use them, but other people do use them.

You can't sit there and tell me what happened to me. I was gathering Lumythrite Ore node and Old-growth Camphorwood Log node. Aoe broke my stealth, from those monsters. Has nothing to do with adamantite nodes. You can't sit here and "why do you start an argument in every thread you make?" when you guys are doing that to me. I said I was stealth, then on a node, the aoe broke my stealth, the game does not let you put stealth back up while on the node. If I clicked out of the node, the node vanishes. After I was hit with AoE that broke my stealth, it reset, then it went to aggro me. Telling me this did not happen to me is YOU AUGURING WITH ME, not the other way around. Just another example why I am told in game " I do not post on the forums because of high toxicity"

They are useless abilities, I thought that would be the accepted, but apparently that is "start an argument in every thread you make?"

As for last ditch, I stopped trying to use that, I have no idea what it does or what it is supposed to do, I gave up on that. I thought it was just me, if that is useless too well..

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Of course prices are gonna be lower, this late into the expansion. The stuff that's crafted with those mats aren't as worthwhile anymore, now that nearly all of the lockouts have been removed.

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They been that low for a long time, and even the new 3.4 nodes a week after release. They stop being worth it to gather a week after, the artificial time spacing does not do much. If 2 people on a forum are fine with a broken economy fine i guess, it is not going to change my view though.

I am only trying to help the game, point out flaws, and yet people chose to attack me, gg i guess. The whole gathering system never made sense to me as it does not meet the goals it supposedly have for itself, timed nodes became useless to gather from too quickly, has all these abilities that make no sense, and the slow regenerating GP, when put next to crafting, gathering as a full picture is downright broken.

When you craft something at level to 5 levels above you, you do not have a 20-40% miss rate no matter how well you gear/meld, you can complete it fine with still a decent chance of HQing.

As for "If you don't like to use them no one is forcing you to use them, but other people do use them." Look at the battle system and all the abilities they are taking out that are rarely used, gathering and crafting should be reexamined too. I do not know why they have such a strong focus on battle and neglect crafting and gathering so much. On that note why does it seem people care about battling so much and care little if something is balanced as far as gathering and crafting?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

They are useless abilities, I thought that would be the accepted, but apparently that is "start an argument in every thread you make?"

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You considering something useless does not mean others consider things useless.

Deep Vigor is great on any node that can be hit 6 times (the nodes in HW that do not have an inherent bonus have a random chance of getting one of the following bonuses +30% HQ, +25% gather chance, +2 Gather Chances, +1 Yield per gather)

On a +2 Gather Chance node with 550 GP you can do 2 things:

Sharp Vision -> Unearth II -> Strike x5 (45% HQ chance) -> Deep Vigor -> Bountiful Yield -> Strike (100% HQ x2) for a 2 to 7 HQ yield. 4.25 yield on average

Sharp Vision -> Strike x5 (15% HQ chance) -> Deep Vigor -> Bountiful Yield -> Solid Reason -> Strike (100% HQ x2) -> Strike (100% HQ) 3 to 7 HQ. 3.25 yield on average.

With 650 GP you can do the following at that same node.

Sharp Vision -> Unearth -> Strike x5 (25% HQ chance) -> Deep Vigor -> Bountiful Yield -> Solid Reason -> Strike (100% HQ x2) -> Strike (100% HQ) 3 to 7 HQ. 4.25 yield on average.