Wondering about an (new) Tanking class I would love :3

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

The Unconventional: This would be more of a mold-breaking approach by having a tank job in either light or caster armor and have passive stats bonuses, traits or other qualities that would offset the lack of baseline tanking stats provided (defense and such). A caster tank would be the most suitable candidate, where jobs like Geomancer have been thrown around, while Green Mage (which does wield a massive hammer) and some variant of Morpher from FFTA could fit this position as well.

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My vote is for this Specifically Geomancer, I even made a concept with them using a variety of shields to both attack and defend: tinyurl.com/geotank

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Originally Posted by Tint

daggers in reality are piercing weapons, yes. but in videogames, especially japanese ones, people tend to hold them backwards and whirling around to cut enemys with the blades... something wich is cool, yeah, but in reality you would be killed if you would try that xD

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

Almost all MMO games that I've played, they've been piercing. The exception is FFXIV. Learn something new every day.

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The main thing, that I am sure most people have noticed, is that the weapon is only a "dagger" by name. FFXIV's Ninja is actually wielding a ninja short sword, or a ninjatō, as it is commonly called. Though the term Dagger can be used to describe a "short sword" the common imagery, especially when paired with a Ninja is a very small bladed weapon used for piercing, because a dagger is a knife not a sword. In english we have terms to describe short swords, Gladius and Dirk being the most common, but seeing as how the job is Ninja using a European term wouldn't work, and though it might of been used before, ninjatō is not a common enough term to use. Hence we have "daggers" with slashing damage.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

The main thing, that I am sure most people have noticed, is that the weapon is only a "dagger" by name. FFXIV's Ninja is actually wielding a ninja short sword, or a ninjatō, as it is commonly called.

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I'm somewhat familiar with Japanese swords and other tools of the trade. As for the ninjatō, there is very very few in game. The level 50 relic weapon for example and what is glamoured to my ninja. If you look at the majority of of the in-game ninja weapons, they are most definitely not ninjatō, as ninjatō only have 1 sharp edge.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...4c4a577d82.jpg



Daggers on the other hand can have both sides sharpened.


a dagger has certain definable characteristics, including: a short blade with a sharply tapered point, a central spine or fuller, and usually two cutting edges sharpened the full length of the blade.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

The main thing, that I am sure most people have noticed, is that the weapon is only a "dagger" by name. FFXIV's Ninja is actually wielding a ninja short sword, or a ninjatō, as it is commonly called.

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That's actually incorrect. We use the knife-like daggers because of Rogue, the Nin Katanas are used only a couple times. Daggers would be piercing if Rogue went into Thief, but since it went into Ninja, they made it slashing to accommodate the addition of Katanas in the roster, which was probably going to be more numerous than they have been.

SE can't even balance 3 tank jobs, and you want them to add another one?

Barbarian = hammer/Maul
Enforcer = Giant club/Mace
Insert class = Nunchaku?

Semi unrelated but Machinist would of been good as a Blunt class instead of piercing.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

My vote is for this Specifically Geomancer, I even made a concept with them using a variety of shields to both attack and defend: tinyurl.com/geotank

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Negation is a bit OP. But other than that, that looks kinda cool. Hell get the artists together and the class is pretty much made for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

) The Unconventional: This would be more of a mold-breaking approach by having a tank job in either light or caster armor and have passive stats bonuses, traits or other qualities that would offset the lack of baseline tanking stats provided (defense and such). A caster tank would be the most suitable candidate, where jobs like Geomancer have been thrown around, while Green Mage (which does wield a massive hammer) and some variant of Morpher from FFTA could fit this position as well.

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That is why i really wanted RDM to be a tank actually :P
I know pretty much everyone disagrees with me, but it would've been perfect to unite Melee Combat, White magic and Black magic in RDM's arsenal, as it should be.
And they've been around with shields before, as well as a 'barrier' type spell.
Self heals would've made sense.
Fastcast theme would've made sense. (being a melee class)
Offensive Black mage spells for Off-tanking would've made sense.
And now imagine RDM being a proper mage having the unique ability to enchant their Rapier / Shield with aether (En-spell?) to parry/block magic attacks, like no other tank can so far, and you've got yourself a pretty interesting tank concept imo :<

Only thing out of place would've been RDM actually being a tank! :D

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Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

Only thing out of place would've been RDM actually being a tank! :D

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It perhaps could've been, especially given its tradition of variability throughout the FF series, however we also have to remember that concepts from previous FF games implemented in FFXIV won't ever really be the same as they were in the past.

Also, this was one of the concepts I cooked up as an example of how a caster tank might work in FFXIV: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing . Although it might not look like much of a traditional spellcaster, you still have to bear in mind the circumstances required of any tank to fight.

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

I'm somewhat familiar with Japanese swords and other tools of the trade. As for the ninjatō, there is very very few in game. The level 50 relic weapon for example and what is glamoured to my ninja. If you look at the majority of of the in-game ninja weapons, they are most definitely not ninjatō, as ninjatō only have 1 sharp edge.
Daggers on the other hand can have both sides sharpened. a dagger has certain definable characteristics, including: a short blade with a sharply tapered point, a central spine or fuller, and usually two cutting edges sharpened the full length of the blade.

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I think the main thing I was trying to convey got sorta lost. I was trying to indicate that the "Ninja", as in the Job itself, weapons are based around Ninjato more than traditional daggers, not even Ninjato specifically but short swords in general. There are a few that are shaped like Sais, Machetes, Butterfly Swords, basically any type of short sword. As you indicated yourself a "true" dagger has defining characteristics that very few of the Ninja weapons have, and mostly any "true" daggers are low level items for when you are still a Rogue. Though there are a few in end game, but you'll notice they are much longer than they should be to be a "dagger"

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

That's actually incorrect. We use the knife-like daggers because of Rogue, the Nin Katanas are used only a couple times. Daggers would be piercing if Rogue went into Thief, but since it went into Ninja, they made it slashing to accommodate the addition of Katanas in the roster, which was probably going to be more numerous than they have been.

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Yes and no, while it is true that we inherited the "weapon" from being Rogues, you'll notice a starkly different design choice on the early weapons when you'd only be a Rogue to becoming a Ninja at end game. Very few end game weapons for ninja are actual daggers, the majority of their weapons are short swords. The main reason I used the term Ninjato is because, well it is a ninja, lol. The other thing is non of their weapons are Katanas at all. In addition to Katanas not really being used by ninjas, the way a Katana is supposed to be used, not to mention the size of it, it could not be wielded backwards.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Negation is a bit OP. But other than that, that looks kinda cool. Hell get the artists together and the class is pretty much made for the most part.

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thank you I worked really hard on it, and I will most likely update it once SB releases and we know how the battle system changes. Also I can see how Negation seems OP and honestly it might be. But i envisioned it as their invincible skill, they take no damage, and anyone in area takes no damage either, including the enemy. Like if you pop it while fighting a mob of 5 enemies and they are all in the field they'll take no damage, that was the trade off I saw. But if you or anyone else has any ideas I am always open to them.

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Originally Posted by ChloeGrace

SE can't even balance 3 tank jobs, and you want them to add another one?

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Yeah because our current roster of DPS are so perfectly balanced aren't they. Bards and Machinist being overpowered in the synergy circlej*** and Caster+MNK being out of meta warrants TWO new additional jobs to a role with an inflated population and already wide variety of choice.

Oh you want to play tanks? Here have 3 which all play relatively the same. Healers? Here's three. You can do Burst Healer, Support Healer(Currently Broke), or Shield and Pet healer. DPS? Well buddy. Heres NINE. You can choose from a wide selection of, Melee with subsets of Max Utility or Max Personal DPS, Range Support who do more than the casters ever wished they could but get the benefit of a DPS slot because they have the monopoly on Mana regen which healers need, and Caster DPS; one that bursts and chunks like a cannon or a master of disease and AoE destruction. With a new Melee/Range Caster hybrid coming soon! Not to mention they all have a wide variety of playstyles!

Oh, what about their aesthetics? For tanks you just have plate guys. They like... Use your common melee weapons. Healers? They're all robe wearing magic users. Staves... and other random miscellanous items. DPS? Ah, you have a Dragon killing knight, a Shaolin Martial Artists, a NINJA, a mage that explodes things, a mage that likes chicken nuggets or floating boogers but also shoots orbital death beams, a bowman that sings, and a steampunk gunner that uses turrets. You'll soon be able to enjoy a ronin-esque SAMURAI and a dapper as all hell Fencer that casts magic too.

/endrant

As interesting as it would be to get a Light Armour or Mail armour wearing tank, it would be more of a pain in the butt to deal with loot than it would be worth to just be different for the sake of being different. In addition to the stupid notion that tanks had to spend millions of gil to get good accessories, people didn't like the idea that they also HAD to compete with the STR dps on DPS accessories. So unfortunately it's designed this way so we don't have to deal with that nonsense again.

E.g Your tank Blue Mage wants Striking Gear, but your MNK/SAM has priority because it's a better upgrade on them. As a blue mage you'll have to suck it up and not get upgrades for awhile or switch to a Fending Tank to utilize those fending drops.