Just shared my opinion on votekick as a feature and whoever disagree can do it. I feel laughning at OP (not you, talking generic) for having an opinion is not the right way to disagree, 'tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidu
Will try to reason around your points:
1) is more about the waiting time for a disband. Here I can agree, 15 minutes are too much long and it happened to me too, it was excessive. And yes, only disband and after 15 minutes means have unwelcome guests all round until the end. Here you have a point and my suggestion can have sense only when that time reduced, to say, to a fair 5 minutes?
2) I disagree a bit here, you are pugging and you cannot decide which kind of players you want be paired with. Trolls and alike can happen, and always can be reported. We all hope reports gets some effects but cannot do more. A troll is a troll and I guess there is no magical checkbox "no trolls please" when queuing df.
3) goes as 1), we need 5 minutes and no more.
4) I agree.
5) I just said it makes sense. It needs be in PF because have much more sense, because have sense kick out people that are not who they needed to be, and going more far, it must be possible even when in combat. I hope not being too much funny expressing this opinion.
If I looks salty on it it is not intended. Just want share my opinion on this topic.
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03-18-2017, 12:44 AMLalaRu
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03-18-2017, 12:47 AMTaleraRistain
There are legitimate reasons to need to kick someone, such as when they are hindering the rest of the party or being abusive. I do think SE needs to solidify their policy on what's allowable. "Difference in playstyle" if the person is not being a hindrance or abusive absolutely shouldn't be allowed, and SE needs to codify that into the policy. If you want to set arbitrary requirements outside of what the duty finder requires, then use party finder to create a pre-made.
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03-18-2017, 12:48 AMSerildaNo, what's getting out of hand are these ridiculous, melodramatic demands to cripple the game in ways which are only needed because a tiny subset of one demographic apparently cannot behave like sensible human beings. Of course there are good and bad players on both eastern and western worlds. But on my server, if someone is being a jerk everyone blacklists them until they can't do any content any more and quit (or learn from their mistakes, in an ideal world). The whole party gets involved in discussing any issues which arise, and problems are resolved with zero GM effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by YISUG
According to the forums - my only frame of reference - almost every Party Finder group has trolls sneaking in to leech clears, every DF group has elitists and casuals arguing over playstyles and racing to be the first to kick one another, and everyone is miserable 100% of the time they play. Other players aren't allies; they're enemies out to ruin your gaming experience unless you backstab them before they backstab you!
Can we please, as players, start taking responsibility for our own problems for once?
This kind of kneejerk reaction has completely destroyed the fun of the Feast even in communities where the problem never existed. -
03-18-2017, 12:51 AMMicahZerrshia
Every time I see one of these posts I cannot help but thinking it is the problematic players who do not want to pull their weight or learn their job and have been repeatedly vote kicked for it that make these kinds of posts. I have played this game since day 1 and have only been vote kicked a couple of times and they were deserved because I had dc'd.
But I have used the vote kick system many times to get rid of problematic ppl. -
03-18-2017, 12:55 AMViduThe problem with vote disband after 5 minutes is that it can be easly abused - if you dont get the roulette you wanted, you wait 5 minutes and try again. That was a huge issue when everyone was farming Brayflox HM for tomes - they might even have introduced it at that point. So thats not gonna happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by LalaRu
And again: why should three people loose their (waiting) time and their place in queue because one person decided to not contribute to the run? Yes, sure, you can report someone whos trolling - but why not also have the easy way to remove that person immidiatly and go on with playing the game you're paying for after all?
I really dont understand why you want this feature removed, sorry. Again: Yes, pugging means you can get paired with anyone and if someone is kicked because of the job they're playing thats silly, but it happens so rarely that we dont need to remove this feature. Kicking someone because they're an ass, afk, DC'd or endager the run in any way is valid enough and happens often enough to keep this feature.
We ASKED for this to happen - I havent used it often myself but each time it helped the run to go smoothly and get finished. I dont see the problem.
And I'm still wondering why you thought about this "problem" at all and want a very helpful feature removed... I'm sorry but I cant help but imagine there is a story behind this. Why would someone who hasnt been kicked think "Oh, this feature that doesnt affect me in any negative way really has to go!" -
03-18-2017, 12:58 AMYISUGi wasnt talking about any of what you just saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Serilda
you said
then you sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Serilda
what....and the whole thing aboutQuote:
Of course there are good and bad players on both eastern and western worlds
lol , just stopQuote:
if someone is being a jerk everyone blacklists them until they can't do any content any more and quit (or learn from their mistakes, in an ideal world). The whole party gets involved in discussing any issues which arise, and problems are resolved with zero GM effort.
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03-18-2017, 12:59 AMKallistra
OP, removing the vote kick command would not fix anything, it would in fact make things worse for a lot of people.
Let's pretend you have a little DPS who is newish to the game, they're leveling their first character, don't really have any friends. They get to AV for the very first time and queue solo. After a painfully long wait, they get in. Healer says, "Ugh, not this run." And proceeds to sit down and not move. If it was the tank sitting there--with a confident healer, even just one good DPS, and small pulls--you could push your way through the dungeon, sure. But you won't be clearing any bosses without a healer. Why should this party have to vote abandon just because one person refuses to do anything and there is no way to remove them? How is that fair to people who are new and haven't made many friends yet, people who have returned after a long time away to find none of their friends play anymore? Those are people who use the DF the most because going with a 4/4 premade isn't always an option for everyone all the time. Not to mention not all roulettes can be done in parties (mentor and frontlines for example).
And what about other problem dungeons like the Aery or the Vault? Both of these dungeons have final bosses that make any issues within the party really obvious. Why should 3/4 people have to suffer through another queue, another 20-40min dungeon, just to get stuck at the final boss because one member cannot preform and there is no way to remove them other than to disband? I remember leveling my DRK and getting an Aery run with a DRG who only used Impulsive Drive. Nothing else. The other DPS in our party died to Sable because they weren't being freed and by the time the adds came out, they had double weakness. The healer is MP spent so they're not DPSing, the DRG is hitting like a limp noodle, the other DPS is trying his best with double weakness and I'm trying my best to DPS without taking too much damage so the healer can conserve some MP. But we could not meet the DPS check and the DRG wouldn't listen to any pointers. So they were removed, and we cleared with a new DPS the next try. I was actually in a Vault run today where we had to remove the healer at the final boss because they just could not keep up with the damage. It wasn't because the tank or my co-DPS weren't dodging, but this healer just wasn't able to handle AoE healing + healing the tank + moving out of AoEs. I'm not going to sit there and watch everyone's rotation so I can vote dismiss at the earliest signs of trouble, in both these instances the rest of us were able to preform well enough for the issues with our fourth member to go unnoticed until we needed to rely on their performance.
What about people who are intentionally trolling? Say you queue up for a 24man and you have like 3 members in your party on classes and they are just there to voke and kite the boss and kill as many people with cleaves and AoEs as possible. With a majority vote they can be removed, all of them if they are that much of a problem that 3 members are willing to dismiss. Why make 21 people suffer because of 3 people who can easily be removed? And leechers? (I personally haven't seen any in PvE content that I can remember, but I remember seeing them in PvP once in a while) Why should I let someone get away with auto running into a wall in 72man and collect their tomes and/or victory when they didn't help?
Yes, some people abuse the vote dismiss, but that's why it has a cooldown. It does NOT need removing, but it might need some adjusting. For example, make dismisses in a 4/4 party require 3/4 to approve the kick instead of 2/4 or make it so you can only dismiss one person everyday. Removing a function is not a solution, it is just creating another web of problems. -
03-18-2017, 01:02 AMSerildaI specifically said 'a handful of people' and cited precedent, but ok. Before you freak out with the #NotAllWesterners and reaction images, please clarify whether you want the ability to kick people removed or not. Whether it's accurate or not, the image of play as presented on the forums is a grave concern to those of us playing the chilled-out version of this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by YISUG
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03-18-2017, 01:04 AMSenorPattyThis is the same for me as well. If someone finds themselves on a perpetual daily basis with bad DF experiences, maybe the problem isn't so much about other people than it is about themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinari
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03-18-2017, 01:08 AMLalaRuWell, I guess you wrote that as an exaggeration, but that is I were really witnessing every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serilda
Main Story duties with people kicked at first mistake, people that leaves duties as soon as they see a leaf or the duty is not welcome (AV, and some time ago SoF was king of it), main drama exploding over every little thing. What in the hell happened?
Only yesterday, a FC mate told me the tank left as soon as it entered duty, another one came and immediately gone afk to be kicked, then I joined in progress just to see there were two poor souls on their first run of the duty. It feels like I shifted to a parallel universe with black and white reversed.