NIN: Shukuchi could be better...

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Originally Posted by Lollie

Not a ninja main but how would you all feel if it applied a stealth/suiton type buff regardless of engagement for say 5 seconds to facilitate sneak/trick attacks and up the recasts a bit to say 90-120s? As opposed to the suggested landing position selection around target.

Slight dps buff to balance the execution difficulty, wouldn't completely remove the need for suiton as it would be to long a timer to use on every sa/ta. Just something I thought about messing around with the job in duneons.

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especially if there are flank buff attacks like Aeolian Edge and Armor Crush, it would be nice to "stealth" in and out of combat: more ways to unlock the enemy from targeting you and flanking them as they are still aware of your presence. i would personally like it if all ninja attacks where to have flanking benefits if such a concept were to be implemented.

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

this is actually very interesting could you also do macros for other abilities like ninjutsu and combos? or are they limited to one command?

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Anything that uses a ground target recently got this option. So for nin shukuchi would be the only applicable skill. But you can do it with shadow flare, salted earth, popping mch turrets etc. (And for all of these anything you can target works; you can cast shadow flare on a tank and it'll center it on where they were standing when you started casting, etc)

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Originally Posted by Lollie

Not a ninja main but how would you all feel if it applied a stealth/suiton type buff regardless of engagement for say 5 seconds to facilitate sneak/trick attacks and up the recasts a bit to say 90-120s? As opposed to the suggested landing position selection around target.

Slight dps buff to balance the execution difficulty, wouldn't completely remove the need for suiton as it would be to long a timer to use on every sa/ta. Just something I thought about messing around with the job in dungeons.

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Even in soloing, taking a few seconds less to Sneak/Trick Attack without using Suiton isn't going to be worth losing that much usage of the ability. In hits like a truck, even on its own. And in group content, the bonus damage quickly adds up to at least another vehicular load of damage.

Now, I'll agree that in general Hide should not slow the Rogue/Ninja by nearly as much as it does, that dungeon mobs shouldn't auto-detect until the end of their domains, and maybe Rogue/Ninja should have a reduced acquisition range even when not stealthed, or, as suggested, a (pseudo-)stealth on Shukuchi, but no content-running NIN is going to be okay with 67% to 50% the possible frequency of TA applications.

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Originally Posted by Lollie

I think you miss understood what I mean. I was referring to an increase in Shukuchi recast not st/ta, and not the removal of suiton as a trigger for being able to use them. Basically it would free up every other sa/ta applies inherent mudra usage cost every other usage. so Shukuchi would go to 90-120 seconds ans sa/ta would remain at the 60 it is now.

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Ahh, I see, I assumed the wrong antecedent. My apologies. That makes more much more sense to me now.

That said, I feel like the Shukuchi cooldown is rather long even now (I'd say the same for Elusive Jump, or Spineshatter before its CD was drastically reduced, etc. ...though Shoulder Rush and Aetherial Manipulation have only ever been a beautifully short 30s CD across ARR+). I'd hate to have its mobility provided be diminished just to make it easier to forgo a potency loss in a given mudra, skip a couple oGCD steps, or couple movement with utility. (Heck, you'd have to be sure to be using it only for the way back into melee range, never out, as not to waste the TA/ST availability.)

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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I think you miss understood what I mean. I was referring to an increase in Shukuchi recast not st/ta, and not the removal of suiton as a trigger for being able to use them. Basically it would free up every other sa/ta applies inherent mudra usage cost every other usage. so Shukuchi would go to 90-120 seconds ans sa/ta would remain at the 60 it is now.

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Originally Posted by Lollie

I think you miss understood what I mean. I was referring to an increase in Shukuchi recast not st/ta, and not the removal of suiton as a trigger for being able to use them. Basically it would free up every other sa/ta applies inherent mudra usage cost every other usage. so Shukuchi would go to 90-120 seconds ans sa/ta would remain at the 60 it is now.

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I would rather have relatively useless abilities like Hide reworked for combat rather than Shukuchi, which I think is fine as is. It's a movement ability, it doesn't need special attributes or effects. It's simply used to position yourself where you need/want to be. Personally I use it pretty frequently and don't see a need for a big change.

I always felt shukuchi was made like this to balance the fact that it has faster base movement than every other melee.

You can also use it without targeting, which can come in handy more often than you'd think.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

It's simply used to position yourself where you need/want to be.

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And it's not even a very good ability for that - Between picking a target, the smokebomb animation, the relatively slow travel time and the pop-up animation, simply walking to a location is often faster. I'd say the break even is around 50-60% of the range, but I didn't do tests.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

And it's not even a very good ability for that - Between picking a target, the smokebomb animation, the relatively slow travel time and the pop-up animation, simply walking to a location is often faster. I'd say the break even is around 50-60% of the range, but I didn't do tests.

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It's could certainly be better, I'd prefer less startup animation. However, I don't think it's true that you can often walk to a location faster. I use the ability frequently and while it's hardly a game-changer I don't think it's useless or broken in any way.

I'm all for improving it's function as a movement ability, however I'm not on board with these suggestions of giving it special effects or buffs to the character. It's unecessary. If anything, the animation just needs to be tweaked to make the travel more efficient.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

It's could certainly be better, I'd prefer less startup animation. However, I don't think it's true that you can often walk to a location faster. I use the ability frequently and while it's hardly a game-changer I don't think it's useless or broken in any way.

I'm all for improving it's function as a movement ability, however I'm not on board with these suggestions of giving it special effects or buffs to the character. It's unecessary. If anything, the animation just needs to be tweaked to make the travel more efficient.

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there is still a situation with the cool-down and limited range of the ability not compensating for its overall effectiveness. however, reducing the cool down and increasing the range will only result in the abuse of the ability for game exploiting reasons (ninja's outclassing mounts).

the only way is a rework without breaking the game. the ability simply cannot stay as it is.

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

there is still a situation with the cool-down and limited range of the ability not compensating for its overall effectiveness. however, reducing the cool down and increasing the range will only result in the abuse of the ability for game exploiting reasons (ninja's outclassing mounts).

the only way is a rework without breaking the game. the ability simply cannot stay as it is.

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Yes it can stay as it is at its core. The only thing that needs to be done is to fix the animation and startup so that it can be executed instantly rather than having the slight lag that it has now.

Shukuchi is already the most flexible of the movement abilities for DPS. Aetherial Manipulation can only target a party member, Shoulder Tackle can only target an enemy, Dragoon had various jumps but each has a set landing behavior. Shukuchi can be free-aimed and can also be used to move directly to any selected target (party member, enemy, object).