Questions you don't think SE team will answer.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Someone was always going to get the short end of the stick, and if tanks and healers get a new job every expansion then two of the three types of dps would have to wait. Casters will have waited 4 years at this point for a new dps...and without a second both melee and ranged would also be waiting 4 years till the next one. If they kept that pattern up and gave melee the job for the next expansion then ranged would end up going 6 years since the last of their type was added...

While Tanks and Healers got a new one every two years.

Does that sound particularly fair to you?

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To be fair, MCH and BRD are both caster ranged dps with the former coming out with HW (as much as they are unhappy about it) they are just physical caster dps rather than magic caster dps. A melee DPS was NIN released in patch 2.4 coinciding with the PvP update. So I will agree that it was indeed time for a melee DPS as that of all the play styles has been the longest to see a new release. It does bare concern though, and really I understand SE pretty much is going to hear complaints regardless of what they release, but saying that releasing a new healer or tank isnt going to affect the morale and wont result in the abandonment of the role for some of those 2 due to stagnation is kind of foolish. I guess they may release another mid expansion job at some point like they did with NIN but as they didnt with heavensward I am leery to place any hope on that. So as it stands healers and tanks will already be waiting 4 years for their next job and honestly for some that may be too late for maintaining their interest in the role.

Hey guys! While I really do appreciate the discussion on the question I posed, It's kinda derailing this thread. I'm going to make a new thread and try to round up all the replies here so far to it so that the discussion can be continued there if people wish. I'll post a link to it once it's done!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...10#post4050710

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Hey guys! While I really do appreciate the discussion on the question I posed, It's kinda derailing this thread. I'm going to make a new thread and try to round up all the replies here so far to it so that the discussion can be continued there if people wish. I'll post a link to it once it's done!

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I don't think we really need another thread complaining about no new tank and healer jobs with HW... I think it would be better for the people derailing this thread to post in one of the several that are already floating around the first 3 pages of General Discussion.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Someone was always going to get the short end of the stick, and if tanks and healers get a new job every expansion then two of the three types of dps would have to wait. Casters will have waited 4 years at this point for a new dps...and without a second both melee and ranged would also be waiting 4 years till the next one. If they kept that pattern up and gave melee the job for the next expansion then ranged would end up going 6 years since the last of their type was added...

While Tanks and Healers got a new one every two years.

Does that sound particularly fair to you?

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Caster tanks have been waiting much longer.
Melee Healers have also been waiting much loner.

SE view them as Ranged and melee only. Not by the mechanics in which their role plays.
If we went by mechanics, or even by aesthetics, we are missing Mudra healers, mudra tanks, and or dual wield tanks and dual wield healers.
And even then, most content can be completed with full melee, or full ranged. (The only time Ive seen it difficult with either full, is in savage content where you need the LB3s, either for single target DPS checks, or AoE DPS checks. And originally Content wasnt designed with the use of the LB until more recently, due to people being picky on which jobs they bring for the LB3)
So you're argument should be "They introduced a ranged DPS, and Healer, then a melee DPS, then a ranged DPS again." not "Its been forever since we got a caster" (If you count a job based on its mechanics, then you got AST as well as MCH)

'Why haven't European players been given a fair, easily accessible opportunity to acquire the various items associated with the maid/butler attire promotion?'

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I don't think we really need another thread complaining about no new tank and healer jobs with HW... I think it would be better for the people derailing this thread to post in one of the several that are already floating around the first 3 pages of General Discussion.

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Eep. Was there one? I actually didn't see one on the first 5 pages or so when I was looking earlier. I already posted T_T;

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Eep. Was there one? I actually didn't see one on the first 5 pages or so when I was looking earlier. I already posted T_T;

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There aren't any specifically, but there have been several threads about DF queues, asking if tanks and healers are going to drop tanking and healing to play one of the new DPS jobs, and a few other things. Scrolling back though, they've fallen to page 4 and beyond, and were discussing other topics as well. So having a consolidated place to discuss probably isn't a bad idea, though I have a feeling it's going to be the same circular arguments that have taken place in other unrelated threads where the topic has cropped up, as well as this one.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

boop

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No, my argument does not make little sense. I never said that tanks and healers don't need new jobs. I said they don't need new jobs to keep enjoying their role. This stands for all classes. I am just sick of people talking like they need incentive to keep playing their role. I perfectly support tanks and healers getting a new role, but when I read posts saying stuff like "we should have been given a new role in the first place" or "we deserved a new role" it reeks entitlement and greatly irritates me.

Most people like to pretend they didn't flat out quit Astrologian except the small few, which is also another source of irritation. I can genuinely remember the early days of Heavensward, being nearly the first year entirely, where people would flat out exclude or blame Astrologians for everything. I felt pretty bad for anyone who genuinely liked the class who had to deal with a mob-mentality, even if it was true AST was on the weaker side. I'm not saying "We should never have a healer again after that," I'm saying "Let's wait for them to figure out our current three healers and three tanks before we add another one." The fact of the matter is, realistically, if we got a new healer and tank, what is stopping it from being like 3.0? Dark Knight or warrior is rotated out, AST or SCH is rotated out, repeat the process?

Would people be ultimately satisfied? Now that they have something "new" to try out? What about the people who originally played those classes? How do you think Paladins feel constantly being criticized and all the memes? I constantly see posts from new players about it, or people asking why Monk is bad or "why do you play Monk" or even people just complaining how their class, as in Monk, offers nothing. The problem is that people post these things, wanting these "new" classes, not realizing that it will inevitably screw over someone of an old class. Sure it's not that person's fault, it's SE's fault, but the point stands. Not everyone benefits from having new jobs.

Also "balanced jobs are something we should just get"? Honestly, yes. Problem is? It's not that easy. FFXIV already has gotten more new classes in TWO expansions than most get in over 4 or 5. I honestly think they spoiled the players too heavily giving a class for each role in Heavensward, since now everyone seemed to expect it again and keeps touting how they "deserve" it, or "should've gotten one." It also doesn't help that Dark Knight was just Paladin with a glorified consecration, a leaping slash, and a very good riot blade combo, while Astrologian is just a glorified WHM who draws cards.

Regardless, we're derailing the topic. I'll drop it here, since I wasn't planning to argue with anyone. Too bad there's no private messaging.

tl;dr
I want new Tanks and Healers, just not right now. (I would LOVE to see a new healer and Tank in 5.0, honestly. Even if it had no DPS.)
Don't forget that DRK shoved PLD aside and that MCH mostly shoved MNK/BLM/SMN aside. Don't forget AST (very late in the patch cycle) mostly replaced WHM.

People who enjoy these classes don't want to feel second-class either. Even if you play them and don't, there are plenty who do. Just like there are people who wanted a healer/tank really badly these expansion, and there are people who didn't.

Edit: I also see people comparing bard and machinist to black mage and summoner. Just because they cast bars doesn't mean people who played casting classes should have or would have liked them.
Edit 2: Just realized there's a thread dedicated to this now, if anyone wants to reply you can do so there, I'll get back to you if necessary.

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Originally Posted by Oscura

The fact of the matter is, realistically, if we got a new healer and tank, what is stopping it from being like 3.0?

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What is stopping new DPS from breaking DPS balance and team compositions? Or what is stopping the current DPS from breaking it all by themselves with the new toys gotten on the way to 70?

The answer is: Nothing.

And with that, we can get back on topic, with the questions:
"How exactly do you do balancing work? Are you working with theorycrafters and math wizards to analyze the metagame for clues or are you using an iterative approach that relies more on gut feeling?"
and
"If you were to realize a design decision as problematic, would you try to rectify it or rather work around it?"

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

the game still will run under Windows XP after all. Console 'limitations' are a myth.

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There's no way that's true. XP has been off extended support for almost 3 years now. I know SE has made some terrible decisions, but they wouldn't do something like that.........right?