Kicked from DR Leveling because I don't slot Protect for low level dungeons?

The thing about DF is you're not guaranteed to get people who play the same way as you. There's no question that Cleric is the most efficient choice but you will find people that believe Protect is more in the spirit of being a "proper" healer. I find kicking over such a minor disagreement to be silly but it probably falls under "differences in playstyle" as being a valid reason.

On my Sch I have Protect in the first slot and I swap it for Cleric after casting it. The fairy is solo healing anyway so the party can keep going while my abilities are on cooldown.
On my Ast I have Cleric first. If the party wants Protect I explain I'll need to swap CC abilities and wait for my stuff to come off cooldown and they can decide if they want to wait or proceed.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

That's a fine mentality for experienced players to have. However, think what you're teaching new players? They see this and then assume that 10% mitigation isn't all that much as they make their way to level 60 for the first time. Then they carry this mentality through extremes and raids, all the while the 'experienced' players are wondering why all these sprouts have so many bad habits.

This is the same reason why there are so many DRKs and WARs without provoke in end-game content. It all starts with 'experienced' players show-boating how unnecessary certain skills are at lower level dungeons. Neglecting the fact that low level dungeons are designed to be easy in order to teach new players how to use their skills.

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Or it shows new players that healers can contribute meaningfully to total party damage and dungeon completion time while promoting evaluation of abilities and how they really work.


The difference between a Protected and unProtected tank in Sastasha, Tam-tara, and Copperbell is a matter of literally 1-2 damage per hit (e.g., 32-35 v 34-37). If the tank has 500 HP, at 33.5 damage per hit it will take 15 Protected hits to kill him. At a rate of 35.5 damage per hit, it will take 15 unProtected hits to kill him.

The difference is a little bit bigger in Haukke Manor, where a Carpet Stain can hit a Protected tank for 85-92 per hit, unProtected 91-99 (a difference of 6-7 per hit). I've seen tanks with as much as 1400 HP (without Defiance) in there, but let's say there's a tank with 1250 HP. At 88.5 per Protected hit, it'll take 15 hits to kill him, and at 95 per unProtected hit, it'll take 14 hits to kill him.


Cleric Stance, however, increases a healer's damage numbers by a factor of 2. I don't know the SCH numbers off the top of my head, but this takes Malefic from 4×Malefic:1×Fire to 2×Malefic:1×Fire, or 2×Malefic:1×Blizzard to 1×Malefic:1×Blizzard.

So while Protect won't make the tank able to withstand any extra hits from the newbie dungeon mobs, Cleric Stance will have a noticeable effect on how long newbie dungeon mobs stay alive.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

That's a fine mentality for experienced players to have. However, think what you're teaching new players? They see this and then assume that 10% mitigation isn't all that much as they make their way to level 60 for the first time. Then they carry this mentality through extremes and raids, all the while the 'experienced' players are wondering why all these sprouts have so many bad habits.

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You are basically saying we should not advocate or play our jobs at maximum potential because new players might misunderstand what we are doing and not play correctly because of it...that seems a bit irrational.

If players are this observant, as you are claiming, to take note of what is being said here or in-game about healers and Protect then they would also notice that healers in level 20/30-60 content always cast protect and that no one in here said not to cross class it and some even said just to put it in second or third slot.

I mean you are kinda saying that all new players cannot think logically or ask other players for confirmation before assuming how to play a job.

I really think they should just get rid of the "can only use x skill at x level" system since they will let you switch the skills as much as you want in the dungeon anyways. Like still give us the same number of slots but axe the arbitrary level restriction.

I didn't even notice that was a thing until the other day. I really just stick to crafting and summoner 90% of the time and that SMN itself only needs like 3 crosskills that you're only EXPECTED to have in ex trials and raids (raging strikes, swiftcast, and quelling) so I never even noticed the restriction until I got yelled at for not having protect in a low level dungeon the other day.

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Originally Posted by Texa

I really think they should just get rid of the "can only use x skill at x level" system since they will let you switch the skills as much as you want in the dungeon anyways. Like still give us the same number of slots but axe the arbitrary level restriction.

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They are doing something about this. So far all we know is that cross class abilities will be subsumed by some sort of new "role ability" subsystem. We might (might) know more Saturday after the FanFest Frankfurt keynote.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Easiest way around arguing with people about this: slot it first before you queue for a >30 dungeon or leveling roulette. Cast protect. Swap protect to the higher slot. By the time the tank or party needs heals your abilities should be off cool down.

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This is also what I do. Seems like common sense to me. I dont see a reason not to use protect. I know its not much but the less I have the heal the happier I am to DPS more!

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

This is also what I do. Seems like common sense to me. I dont see a reason not to use protect. I know its not much but the less I have the heal the happier I am to DPS more!

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Lol as if u need to heal when the fairy already do all the work for u.

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Originally Posted by SundayTrash

Lol as if u need to heal when the fairy already do all the work for u.

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I don't play scholar 100% of the time lol... but yeah being on scholar makes putting up protect and switching out cleric /even/ easier. No excuses OP

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Originally Posted by Miste

You are basically saying we should not advocate or play our jobs at maximum potential because new players might misunderstand what we are doing and not play correctly because of it...that seems a bit irrational.

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All I am trying to say is that beginning dungeons are easy for a reason. Do you really think that the majority of players spend time to explain their actions to other players? No, of course not. Without any context for player actions, new players will simply imitate what they see. Some will be able to connect the dots later in their game career, but most will not. As a evidenced by how many poor quality players we have in Cross-Party Finder.

I am not advocating against optimizing your cross class skills and game play. All I am saying is that, introducing such concepts to brand-new players do more harm than good. Let them learn how to walk first.

If you want to optimize your play style. Do it at end game, where it actually matters.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Or it shows new players that healers can contribute meaningfully to total party damage and dungeon completion time while promoting evaluation of abilities and how they really work.

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No, it really doesn't do that. All it does is promote a Raiding Meta as the default way to play long before it's needed or even appropriate. When you get to the level 50 dungeons and up, what you're talking about begins to matter more, but when people are still learning how to play - the sub 50 dungeons are the game's tutorial - you could at least let people learn to play their role and job before fostering a raiding mentality.