Why CNJ > WHM & THM > BLM does make sense: A canoical study.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

I could actually see, for many of the classes, a sort of "exchange program" for jobs.

Conjurers would leave the woods of Gridania to visit the Milvaneth Sacrarium in Ul'dah, to learn more about life and divine powers. Using both the magic of nature and the wisdom of the Twelve, the White Mage would become a beacon of light and hope for all of Eorzea in these dark times.

Likewise, Thaumaturges would head to Gridania, witnessing the sheer power of the Elementals and wishing to harness such power for themselves. With the power of Thaumaturgy and the might of Elemental magic at their disposal, all foes shall flee in terror at the unbridled power of the Black Mage!

I dunno. It's how I always figured it. Thaumaturges did always seem like the class more willing to go to extreme lengths for power, especially if that power was really, really, REALLY needed, RIGHT NOW, like if the Empire marching on Ul'dah. Likewise Conjurers are naturally-gifted with powers, but their sheltered lifestyle could lead the Gridanian-based guild to seek out alternate sources of power -- but nothing as dark as Thaumaturgy, thus they would turn to the Sacrarium.

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Great post OP and also this one I have quoted. I think it would be a great idea to have such mission from THM to BLM to visit Gridania and absorb the powers of CON and vice versa. I hope this is something they have been planning :D

We've been through this before, when you start a game you pick either Conjurer or Thaumaturge.

With Conjurer you get:
Fire, Blizzard, Aero, Stone, Thunder, Water.

With Thaumaturge you get:
Scourge
Banish

You are never forced to, asked, or told to either guild until much later in the game, you can argue canonical nature all you want if the information is "obscured" and once you just start the game, you see these two, and which one you think is the Black Mage? and don't lie, Conjurer (SE is also to blame with their retarded naming) has all the indications of being a pure black mage, yes later you get buffs and heals, but you do so with both, but I'm not arguing what you get later, this is all about first impressions, and unless you read all the random Wiki crap you really don't know what you're getting into the first time around, you can draw symbolism and Naming into this all you want, the statement stands, people don't come here to perform analyses of the mythos, they come to play a game, and the abilities provided to them at the start are misleading to the purpose of jobs themselves.

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Originally Posted by Zeref

We've been through this before, when you start a game you pick either Conjurer or Thaumaturge.

With Conjurer you get:
Fire, Blizzard, Aero, Stone, Thunder, Water.

With Thaumaturge you get:
Scourge
Banish

You are never forced to, asked, or told to either guild until much later in the game, you can argue canonical nature all you want if the information is "obscured" and once you just start the game, you see these two, and which one you think is the Black Mage? and don't lie, Conjurer (SE is also to blame with their retarded naming) has all the indications of being a pure black mage, yes later you get buffs and heals, but you do so with both, but I'm not arguing what you get later, this is all about first impressions, and unless you read all the random Wiki crap you really don't know what you're getting into the first time around, you can draw symbolism and Naming into this all you want, the statement stands, people don't come here to perform analyses of the mythos, they come to play a game, and the abilities provided to them at the start are misleading to the purpose of jobs themselves.

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Well actually yes, I agree that Conjurer seemed more like BLM from the first impression but THM didn't seem like WHM to me either though. I chose to play THM because it seemed like a hybrid between RDM and DRK.

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Originally Posted by Zeref

We've been through this before, when you start a game you pick either Conjurer or Thaumaturge.

With Conjurer you get:
Fire, Blizzard, Aero, Stone, Thunder, Water.

With Thaumaturge you get:
Scourge
Banish

You are never forced to, asked, or told to either guild until much later in the game, you can argue canonical nature all you want if the information is "obscured" and once you just start the game, you see these two, and which one you think is the Black Mage?

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With Thaumaturge you get:
Banish
Exaltation
Phantom dart
Scourge

Plus the lore text that you can see for all classes when you create a character, which for THM states this:

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In the hands of a skilled practitioner, thaumaturgy can be a force of terrifying destruction. At the heart of this school of magic lies the ability to call forth and command the latent aether within oneself through deep introspection.

To mold that aether into sorcery, the thaumaturge makes use of a scepter or staff, within which is housed a medium - a natural stone imbued with magical properties. The guild is centered at the Arrzaneth Ossuary in Ul'dah, within whose hallowed walls are said to reside powers of life, death, and the beyond.

Thaumaturges are unparalleled in their powers of destruction, eclipsing even the Disciples of War.

By enfeebling enemies and enhancing their allies, thaumaturgy can prove to be an invaluable asset, particularly in battles of attrition.

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Furthermore, there is no reason why SE can not state during the tutorial which class ends up being which Job. It is not there right now as there are no such Jobs in the game.

The only thing that even remotely goes towards OPs argument is the definition of fane. So kudos, you found one thing. The rest is pure conjecture and inference. False conjecture and inference at that. Some of the quoted text even serves to refute the conclusion OP comes to. /boggle

Facts:

BLMs are NOT evil (THMs are not evil either for that matter)

BLMs are defined by their elemental nukes not dark magic. Nobody plays BLM to cast bio. They play BLM to cast FLARE.

THMs have more astral abilities than CNJs They also have far more traditional WHM spells. CNJ has an irrefutable higher number of traditional BLM spells than THMs.

Churches built above and caring for catacombs have been happening in the real world since they started being built. Hardly makes Christian priests evil BLMs so not sure why that would be evidence for THMs.

THMs revere and serve the god Nald'thal, a dual god whose sphere of influence includes life, the afterlife, and transactions. They do not just serve Thal and to claim so is ignorant and/or deceptive.

CNJs are just as vengeful as THMs. For an example, see company quest cutscenes for Gridania "Disorganized Crime." Raya-O-Senna: "Whoever did this must know the forest's vengeance. I vow to find those responsible, sister."

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BLMs are NOT evil (THMs are not evil either for that matter)

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Which one is more evil, dark, shadowy, "bloody": BLM or WHM?

That's right, so THM is BLM.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Which one is more evil, dark, shadowy, "bloody": BLM or WHM?

That's right, so THM is BLM.

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BLMs aren't evil. So it doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

BLMs aren't evil. So it doesn't matter.

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One of them is more evil than the other. That one takes the role of THM, regardless of their past.

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Originally Posted by Zeref

We've been through this before, when you start a game you pick either Conjurer or Thaumaturge.

With Conjurer you get:
Fire, Blizzard, Aero, Stone, Thunder, Water.

With Thaumaturge you get:
Scourge
Banish

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heh? what kind of logic is this? i could also say look:

con:
protect, Shell, Stoneskin, Cure, Curega, lightning bolt

thm:
shockspikes, reggen (heal+sacrifice your HP), shadow bolt, poison, bio.

so what does look more like a blm?
the con ONLY seemed to be a blm just of the elemental spells, but thats it.
THM was always in the role on the "dark side".

The thaumaturg's guild is about the science of death. their practices where discussed world wide in Eorzea (very heretical, very dark)... THM is about sacirificing HP or convert energy from the dead into into MP..
CON was always about nature, healing arts without hurting themselves... so who is looking more "enlightened" to you??


i think all elemental spells will be switched to THM and in contrast to that conjurer will receive banish, dia, slow and so on.. like the whm in FFXI.
but we can question ourself... which skills do the classes receive with switching to whitemage and blackmage job? thats the question.


i mean a conjurer having banish, dia, slow, cure, curega,stoneskin,protect,shell,poisona etc.. what else is the difference then between whitemage and con?? i mean he will be almost a whm without the job.


thats what im asking myself right now^^

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

One of them is more evil than the other. That one takes the role of THM, regardless of their past.

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The point is, this "evil" thing is a pointless thing to argue about since BLM is not evil and THMs aren't evil either. You equate words like "shadow" with "evil." Your morality is far too black and white. See what I did there?