Interpreting the Rising Poem

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Originally Posted by myahele

The whole swirling, eddy, spiraling body of water reminds me a lot of the WoD artwork.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...3&d=1472270969

It seems like they're surrounding a spiral light source (Hydaelyn?) surrounded by darkness. In fact, it kinda reminds me of the spiral that forms when you drain water in a tub/sink. Underneath that swirl, could be The Mother Crystal?

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/p....png?861af3dv1

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The anti-tower is built suspended over a giant whirlpool of aether as well.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

We always have threads for these on New Years, so why not, right?

As always, translations are amateur and unpolished.
Please suggest better translations if you spot anything that seems amiss. It can only help the final interpretations.

JAPANESE

『渦巻く意思の円環の　底に積もるは　嘆きの澱
Swirling Ring of Will / Pooling at the Nether / The Dregs of Sorrow

逆巻く命の円環の　天に上るは　祈りの風』
Surging Ring Life / Rising up to Heaven / The Winds of Prayer

『流転する螺旋を繋ぐは　汝の水晶
Binding their Spiraling Flux / Thy Crystal

巌を穿つ金剛の槍　海原切り裂く白金の剣』
Piercing the Rock, the Adamantine Spear / Cleaving the ocean, the Silver Sword

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First of all, is there a picture of this poem like there has been with previous ones? Secondly I find it interesting that the term used for "you" is "nanji". So far, I have only heard the Ascians use it, and the dictionary I'm using describes it as an archaic term. So is this a poem from the perspective of the Ascians?

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Originally Posted by Tenkuu

First of all, is there a picture of this poem like there has been with previous ones? Secondly I find it interesting that the term used for "you" is "nanji". So far, I have only heard the Ascians use it, and the dictionary I'm using describes it as an archaic term. So is this a poem from the perspective of the Ascians?

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No picture. In fact, it doesn't even seem to be a prophetic poem. The Wandering Minstrel simply says it to you out of gratitude for opening the door to him joining the play. Archaic speech makes sense, the Minstrel always uses flowery speech. As far as I can tell, it's meant to consolidate a concise recap of Hydaelyn and Zodiark's place in the cosmology. I'm not even absolutely sure that the Spear is meant to be associated with Zodiark, but it seems likely. The argent (silver) weapon that cleaves the ocean is most definitely the aetherial blade, and "adamantine" metals are often characterized as being dark if not jet-black, so based on the rest of the poem giving each entity their due, I would have to assume it is His representative weapon.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

The spear (of Darkness?) that pierces the stone..
The blade (of Light) that cuts[B] the sea...

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This particular part of it is tickling my brain, but I'm not sure how to approach it - the context based on the rest of the poem leads me to different interpretations based on which language it's in.

Both the English and the Japanese translation provided lead me to think of Zodiark (the Rock that is pierced by the spear) and Hydaelyn (the sea cloven by the silver sword/Blade of Light). That then conjures in my mind an image of someone set against both Zodiark and Hydaelyn.

The French and German versions, on the other hand, result in that section of the poem reading more like it's a boastful honorific of sorts, describing a stalwart champion who (in a less humorous sense) stabs figurative mountains and slashes metaphorical waves.

And so the itch continues - I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into the last couple lines.:confused:

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

The argent (silver) weapon that cleaves the ocean is most definitely the aetherial blade, and "adamantine" metals are often characterized as being dark if not jet-black, so based on the rest of the poem giving each entity their due, I would have to assume it is His representative weapon.

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I find it interesting that the item that seems to connect to Zodiark is not described as piercing the sea, and vice versa for the silver weapon - they both seem to be aimed at their own wielder based on this interpretation.

Though it does also feel like the poem is describing a single entity wielding both (except for the Japanese translation which is non-specific, and not knowing any Japanese I obviously can't tell if there's a clue in the original text)

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His is the spear that pierces the stone. Hers is the blade that divides the sea.

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His is the spear that pierces the stone.
Hers is the blade that divides the sea

Sea= Silvertear Lake
Stone= Mothercrystal

Something happened between Midgardsrmr and Hydaelyn involving the Lake which is probably what the sea is referring to (sea is a more poetic word for body of water than a "lake"). Stone is an abrupt diminutive way to refer to a crystal that makes it sound less than remarkable (like calling Earth a "rock"). The blade may refer to Hydaelyn's warriors of light in a metaphorical sense, or maybe literally the blade of light. The spear may refer to the counterpart (so far not shown)

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

His is the spear that pierces the stone.
Hers is the blade that divides the sea

Sea= Silvertear Lake
Stone= Mothercrystal

Something happened between Midgardsrmr and Hydaelyn involving the Lake which is probably what the sea is referring to (sea is a more poetic word for body of water than a "lake"). Stone is an abrupt diminutive way to refer to a crystal that makes it sound less than remarkable (like calling Earth a "rock"). The blade may refer to Hydaelyn's warriors of light in a metaphorical sense, or maybe literally the blade of light. The spear may refer to the counterpart (so far not shown)

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If I were to follow this reading I would think the 'adamant spear' may actually be the Agrius. The common tool for slaying dragons in Eorzea is the spear. The Agrius slayed Midgardsormr and pierced the bed of Silvertear lake, which broke the seal on a well of Aether (that may have been directly linked to Hydaelyn). I know I'm reaching but if the poem is referencing the events at Silvertear as forshadowing for us revisiting the site then that would be my reading of it.

I am not great with translating poetry (flowery language is beyond me), but here is a working translation of the Japanese version:

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『渦巻く意思の円環の　底に積もるは　嘆きの澱
逆巻く命の円環の　天に上るは　祈りの風』
『流転する螺旋を繋ぐは　汝の水晶
巌を穿つ金剛の槍　海原切り裂く白金の剣』


uzumaku ishi no enkan no soko ni tsumoru ha nageki no ori
sakamaku inochi no enkan no ten ni noburu ha inori no kaze
ryuutensuru rasen wo tsunagu ha nanji no suishou
iwa wo ugatsu kongou no yari unabara kirisaku hakkin no ken


The dregs of grief pile up at the bottom of the swirling ring of will
The winds of prayer rise to the heaven of the surging ring of life
Thy crystal shall connect the ever changing helix
The adamantine spear pierces the rock, the silver sword cleaves the ocean

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The bolded kanji have references to water, some more direct than others:

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渦巻く - to whirl or eddy
澱 - dregs, sediment. read as "yodo" is is a pool in a river.
逆巻く - the surging of waves or water
流転 - ryuuten itself does not link to water directly , but the first kanji has a water radical and can be read as "current" or "flow"
汝 - again, water radical
水晶 - crystal, but incidentally the first kanji reads as water.
螺旋 - the first kanji is also used for edible whelks
巌 - is an archaic form of 岩 which can also mean "anchor"
海原 - the (deep) ocean

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So like in the other languages, references to water and sea all over the place

small notes:
- 白金 literally "white metal" or "white gold" comes back with both "silver" and "platinum" as meanings.
- 金剛 means an indestructible substance and can thus also gives diamond and adamantine as possible options, but FFXIV uses アダマン (adaman) whenever talking about adamantite.
- However this does make for a nice thing where we have the opposition of 金剛 and 白金 which both use the kanji 金 which is visually pleasing if nothing else.

Thanks a bunch for laying it out, Alice! I don't know much about connotation and was very curious if they were able to pack as much water in there as English. Curiouser and curiouser...

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

There's a lot of spiral imagery, but the English version especially is littered with aquatic association words. Whorl, dross, eddy, flux, flow, gyre, oceans.
Wasn't the first expansion a toss-up between sea and sky (the sky being Heavensward)? Maybe it's a very vague nod to the next expansion somehow, assuming there will still be a water theme. Then again, it's _only_ the English version which has this, the others have no such theme.

Just tossing ideas at the wall :P

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So, they're going to introduce Blitzball and swimming areas