They need to bake ACC cap into cleric stance already.

I still need a lot of practice in A5. I've only cleared it twice.

But now that you mention it, there are times when I could be DPSing there. Although I am worried about running out of mana from raising a lot. I never know when and how many people are doing to die.

When I said "if there is not enough DPS then there is a problem with the DPS (player)" I was talking about passing DPS checks. Like in Nidhogg EX especially.

If my group can't take down the 3 adds before time is up, even if no one dies, then the DPS just isn't putting out enough.
Actually, the last time I did Nidhogg EX, I was scolded for DPSing Nidhogg and the adds (even though no one died until the tower phase, when my co-healer died from super jump).

They said "There is no DPS check at the beginning. Also, you can let the DPS handle the adds. Just heal us."
But when the DPS can't take down the 3 adds in time, doesn't it make sense for me to DPS? I don't know......why I was scolded for that.
And, yes, some of my Stone IIIs did miss the adds. Still, I would have been even more upset if someone had said "Your Stone IIIs missed. If they hadn't, we could have cleared the adds. You need to meld Accuracy!"

I've seen DPS clear that phase many times without me needing to use Stone III. Why must I sacrifice my healing power to have higher accuracy, to clear a DPS check that DPS should have the ability to clear.

Basically, this kind of DPS check phase passing is what I was talking about.

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

The only class that should get acc on cleric is whm. Astro and sch has actions that has no acc needed and whm is always a main healer this will help with main healer to contribute to dps while not sacrifice mp. It better to hit a skill than miss cuz your wasting reasources

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This argument makes no sense if WHM is always main healer then how do they need cleric acc buff more? It makes sense for AST and SCH to get an accuracy buff to clerics as they are support healers. Although saying that AST lately is starting to become more on par with WHM.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

This argument makes no sense if WHM is always main healer then how do they need cleric acc buff more? It makes sense for AST and SCH to get an accuracy buff to clerics as they are support healers. Although saying that AST lately is starting to become more on par with WHM.

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Because:

1) WHM originated the skill. Powerful skills like these should be traited more kindly to their original class. 20% Accuracy would be a completely balanced trait. Just look at Pugilist.
2) WHM do not have any 100% accuracy skills, like Bio, Bio II, Shadowflare, Combust, or Combust II, which makes their hit rate much lower on average. The off healers WILL meld to accuracy cap, when some main healers will not, choosing instead to meld Piety. (Every 7.2GCDS youll cast Combust and every 12 Combust II. Over the course of 36 GCDs you'll cast Combust 5 times and Combust II 3 times. This creates a total of 8 GCDS that can't miss every 36 GCDS, which is about 22% of the time, effectively guaranteeing at least a 22% accuracy rate, which is why 20% would be just fine.)

They need it more, because on average, they will spend significantly less GCDs using their accuracy investment than an off healer. To a main healer, accuracy is necessary, but returns less comparative investment when compared to their co-heal.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

The only healer that should get accuracy on their Cleric Stance is WHM. Something like +20%. AST and SCH have skills that increase their overall rate of accuracy, because they cannot miss (Moves that do not have a base damage, like Combust/Bio.) CNJ/WHM do not have any skills like this.

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While I agree that whm does get the short end of the stick as far as accuracy is concerned, the "auto-hit" attacks are not really a factor. That would be like saying black mages need an innate accuracy boost over summoners, because summoners have the same dots that scholars do that never miss. Those 3 skills (2 for ast) don't, in any way, allow for less accuracy to be needed. Giving a bonus to just whm, will just mean that other healers have to equip more accuracy to reach the same state, which is also undesirable.

If we're going to continue to have accuracy as it is now in the game, cleric stance and tank stances should just give a small bonus, so you can get by with less accuracy than you'd need otherwise. In addition, I don't like every healer effectively having to cross-class cleric stance, we should each get our own version, and they should be a little different, flavor-wise.

1. Give accuracy to healer gear for 3.4
2. Require acc melds on the healer gear to meet Alexander Savage requirements
3. Rework all secondary stats in 4.0

If you're not providing DPS in a savage raid when you are over geared, then there are issues. You're either being lazy, not utilizing mana/fairy/stances right, or you're solo healing. If you're solo healing or your co-healer is, then you better be providing good dps.
Gear needs the accuracy, not cleric stance. This will let a change happen for 3.4 be viable, and then accuracy can be changed in 4.0

All three healers should get the accuracy, hence basic accuracy embedded into gear.
Savage fights are not designed for anyone to have 0 dps. The better every class does, the less each class has to suffer or stress.

This next tier WILL require a change, otherwise gear you will have to suffer as a healer and not have BiS ever, so you meet acc requirements.

Nope, no more free accuracy on healer gear. Yoship said it himself they are going to avoid doing that again, and because we have materia slots now on tome and alex/savage gear that gives options for all types of healing play styles. Whether one wants more healing substats, or full-blown ACC to conquer savage content. It's a choice to make. The dungeon accuracy issue had been addressed by just nerfing the accuracy needed for that casual content. Players that want to tackle savage and extreme primals, and contribute to DPS, should obviously plan for ACC.


If anything Midas Savage had taught us, aside from having a 240 anima (which ultimately could play out to be a good investment for ACC for this last tier), to get full ACC in A8S you had to shy away from as much right side healer VIT melds as much as possible. Which in my opinion for progression is the best materia strategy aside from ACC. Being able to survive to see more mechanics you probably should have died to is like walking on water. BiS is determined by gear, not melds.

Agreed adding acc on stuff is useless since we can now meld which give a lot more (and not combine both... A useless non dpsing healer should not have acc)

Also seconding the VIT part
I did choose to wear a midan fending because VIT and ACC (+deter)
And it doesn't really bother for healing (you lose more or less 150/200 hp on a basic cure compared to an actualités midan healing ring)

No more accuracy could be fun! To make things more fun, let's remove the ability to move out of telegraphed AoEs altogether. :>

...Why should we be the only ones to know the joy of never missing? :D

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Because:

1) WHM originated the skill. Powerful skills like these should be traited more kindly to their original class. 20% Accuracy would be a completely balanced trait. Just look at Pugilist.
2) WHM do not have any 100% accuracy skills, like Bio, Bio II, Shadowflare, Combust, or Combust II, which makes their hit rate much lower on average. The off healers WILL meld to accuracy cap, when some main healers will not, choosing instead to meld Piety. (Every 7.2GCDS youll cast Combust and every 12 Combust II. Over the course of 36 GCDs you'll cast Combust 5 times and Combust II 3 times. This creates a total of 8 GCDS that can't miss every 36 GCDS, which is about 22% of the time, effectively guaranteeing at least a 22% accuracy rate, which is why 20% would be just fine.)

They need it more, because on average, they will spend significantly less GCDs using their accuracy investment than an off healer. To a main healer, accuracy is necessary, but returns less comparative investment when compared to their co-heal.

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I agree with what you are saying about original class getting buff Actually thinking about it no they shouldnt, SE has moved away from classes now, new jobs that are added don't have classes so why should old classes get skills buffed originating from their base class. Majority of the time WHM are main heal in Savage etc with less wiggle room for dps compared to off healer. Originally I said AST too but looking at it now they will also main heal most of the time too.

At present to me it only seems worthwhile Sch getting an accuracy boost to Clerics others seem pointless (unless they fill the role more). All healers should get an ACC buff to help with the times they do off heal, I just think all healers should be as flexible as OT and be able to switch between both roles with ease and do decent damage. Without the need to rely on melds these should be used to buff our heals not our dps.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Because:

1) WHM 20% Accuracy on Clerics would be balanced.

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I know this is a bit old to reply to but, there is no way that would be balanced at all.

The reason is that Hit Rate does not start at 0%. The cap for A8S is only +22% over base accuracy for magic users.

The other thing is that while some of SCH and AST skills can't miss they are such a small amount of DPS that it can't be compared to a 22% Hit Rate.


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2.5s GCD (Cast/Recast)

Bio - 240 Potency over 18s = 13.33 Potency/s
Bio 2 - 350 Potency over 30s = 11.67 Potency/s

Broil - 170 Potency over 2.5s = 68 Potency/s

So say you were at 80% Accuracy for something and the Clerics Trait would bring you to 100%.
While your Bio and B2 would hit, your average Broil would only be 54 Potency/s (68 * 0.8).

That's a loss of 14 Potency/s which is greater than either of B/B2.

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WHM

A3 - 370 over 24s - 15.4 Potency/s (@ 80% = 12.32 Potency/s)
A2 - 250 over 12s - 20.8 Potency/s (@ 80% = 16.64 Potency/s)
Stone III - 84 - Potency/s

Stone III @ 80% Accuracy = 67 Potency/s

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Because WHM potencies are so much higher even @ 80% accuracy it's still higher than SCH at 100% accuracy. WHM just burns through MP.

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People have this idea that because AST and SCH have skills that can't miss that they shouldn't even stack accuracy, not realizing how insignificant that portion of damage really is.