PLD highest DPS tank single target

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

It's not about the ammount. Paladin's CDs are just pop&done. WAR has to manage stacks (= reach V stacks to use Inner Beast for mitigation), has to tankswap often (to utilize Bloodbath best), etc...
WAR has five "Pop&done" CDs: Foresight, Vengeance, Raw Intuition, Covaleszens, Equilibrium.
Even Holmgang needs a bit of planning and only mitigates "overkill" (everything until 1 HP is just normal damage, which needs to be healed).

Paladin got Sheltron, Rampart, Sentinel, Hallowed, Bullwark, Covaleszens, Foresight, Clemency.... and even Flash with the -toHit%, which is pretty nice in dungeons (big pulls). Everything just "Need it? Click it!".
It's just simpler* than stancedancing and utilizing self-heals, which the WAR has to do a lot.


*don't mistake that as 'easier'.

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1. You missed Thrill.
2. To the person I was responding to (not you), yes it does matter about the amount due to the ignorance spewed in the post I responded to.
3. Managing stacks isn't hard, nor is planning them out and generally speaking all tanks have to plan their CD's out on any fight that actually matters, this is not something that only WAR does, and is actually probably harder on PLD in some cases (non physical tank busters) due to the long cool downs.
4. I don't consider any of those popped and done as the weaker Cool downs should be paired up with another, this includes skills on PLD's list as well. I pray to god you're not just using Bulwark or foresight alone. Also Clemency is pretty trash still, quite literately the only tool to make you miss a GCD and start your combo over if you're in the middle of one. GG.
5. No one cares about blind in big pulls when you can push out damage and make it to where healing is basically not needed on you for the duration of Berserk. If you're looking to blind trash, play Drk.
6. Not quite too sure why you're tank swapping for blood bath, but k.

The issue is game balance and wanting to avoid watering down the jobs so that they're not all the same. PLD has an awesome amount of utility and support, but it doesn't matter because theres more value in trading all that for more DPS with how the content is designed. In order for PLD to compete either the content needs to change or PLD needs to offer more DPS either directly or through supporting party DPS—preferably support because straight DPS doesn't fit PLD IMO. I also like the idea of DPS DPSing and not being so reliant on tanks/healers (which SE has recently been encouraging).

I have deep love for PLD, but I shouldn't have to feel like I need to justify to myself playing the job I want. The game wants DPS and the other tanks have it.

All could be fixed in my opinion if SwO and ShO were oGCD. More fluid Stance dancing for PLD would offer more dps, while also raising the skill ceiling up a bit to execute effectively, to swap into ShO just for Halone to build hate, or hop into SwO for RA even when big damage is incoming. In my opinion, this would solve all problems with PLD.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

All could be fixed in my opinion if SwO and ShO were oGCD. More fluid Stance dancing for PLD would offer more dps, while also raising the skill ceiling up a bit to execute effectively, to swap into ShO just for Halone to build hate, or hop into SwO for RA even when big damage is incoming. In my opinion, this would solve all problems with PLD.

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Switching to SwO would do nothing for RA. It's purely auto attack increase. So basically, ShO for Halone only to build hate when needed or to dela with tank buster and SwO at all times otherwise. I wish it would give attack an overall boost though. That would be nice, even if it's small.

I've seen a lot of people suggest making flash do damage, but I don't feel like that's actually the best way to handle PLD's lack of AOE. The easiest, most basic fix they could do to jump PLD's aoe would be making Overpower Cross-class. The idea behind traited flash was to add to PLD's suite of defensive abilities; blind means potentially less auto attacks. If you pull only three mobs at a time, one flash and circle of scorn is enough to maintain threat so long as the party is focused on a single target or you rotate the RoH combo. Sparingly using flash allows more blind uptime; way more than DRK.

It would also give blood bath an actual use. If you open this up to DRK then AOE pulls get absolutely insane. After all that abbysal drain with constant MP ticking back, you pop the dodge combo while dropping multiple Scourge, then use OP for the duration of Blood bath, and back into abbysal drain with DA if anything is left alive.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

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and give paladins a instant 20% damage reduction when he want? thats not solve nothing only make PLD like WARS with a more effective stance dancing but less dps overall.

tanks need a more complex gameplay around tanking and less focus in dps in my opinion, if SE make in the end PLD and DRK stances oGCD i expect at least a bonus in the defensives when whe are in tank mode and a sustancial nerf when not, to improve the gameplay

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Originally Posted by Rhaja

blind means potentially less auto attacks. If you pull only three mobs at a time, one flash and circle of scorn is enough to maintain threat so long as the party is focused on a single target or you rotate the RoH combo. Sparingly using flash allows more blind uptime; way more than DRK.

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DA+ Dark passenger for 15 second blind, waiting until it runs out and followed up by DA + Dark Dance for 20 seconds of increased evasion says hi and basically kills your augment for the usefulness of PLD's Blind side effect from flash. Funny story is that you can also put these two together and basically become the best evasion job in the game (which makes no sense) if you wanted to cut your healer some slack and kill off some of your dps potential at trash pulls.

PLD has more support options. Its just that simple. By taking this support they had to sacrifice somewhere and that somewhere was their DPS. To play a PLD you have to enjoy helping others more than other tanks, its part of their appeal to many.

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Originally Posted by Seku

DA+ Dark passenger for 15 second blind, waiting until it runs out and followed up by DA + Dark Dance for 20 seconds of increased evasion says hi and basically kills your augment for the usefulness of PLD's Blind side effect from flash. Funny story is that you can also put these two together and basically become the best evasion job in the game (which makes no sense) if you wanted to cut your healer some slack and kill off some of your dps potential at trash pulls.

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How does that kill anything? Yes DRK has an evasion combo that comes at the cost of a nice chunk of mana. In return it leads to more damage with the potential for a lot of Low Blows; its more aggressive. PLD has had an on demand blind far longer, but because of large pulls and PLD's lack of aoe it goes largely unnoticed.

Also lets go with flash doing damage. We can go ahead and get rid of the blind since it'll fail to see use anymore. Flash is a spell. Fight or Flight increases Physical damage, not attack power. So our damage boosting cooldown is still useless for Flash. Also, Blood bath does not work on spells. So giving flash damage does very little.

Overpower does physical damage, can be used with blood bath, and can be used in tandem with Flash's blind effect to help with the TP drain. The point I was trying to make wasn't that PLD is OP blind dodge tank. The point is Overpower is the best quick fix they could do at any point to fix PLD's AoE issue.

And I guess I should try to get a bit more on topic about single target dps. I'm in the same opinion as most others in this thread; PLD has more support abilities that make up for its lack of damage all around. In fact I find PLD more fun and rewarding in 8man content because you can help the party out more than just doing higher dps.

Honestly, I wouldn't want OP on my PLD. One, i think it'd look weird seeing the how the PLD move would look... Would he swing his sword down from over his head like you would see with the axe on a WAR? I dunno, just seems odd to me with the PLD weapon set. Would look ok with the DRK sword as they have massive swords that are two handed. But seeing a tiny 1 handed sword create a shockwave while your character has his 2nd hand on the blade seems weird to me :P

Two, I really don't want to be a copy paste of WAR except worse.... We already get compared to the other tanks too much imo. I don't want to be a WAR or a DRK with a shield. I'd rather PLD keep their own identity and get move sets that can keep up with the others, but are different. Yes, OP would be useful to the other tanks as well as be an easy solution. But I feel like that's the lazy way to fix the problem and cause new ones (like PLD having no way of restoring TP).