Is ninja dps starting to fall behind?

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

Im just tired of people posting numbers and the ninja is always 3rd in dps 200-300 dps lower then monk,drgs and blms.

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According to the dps requirements of SSS, NIN is only 70 dps behind DRG and thats without a WAR. With a WAR thats closer to 40 dps. Anyhhow, 200-300 dps difference means the ninja just wasnt playing well, or he had to do all of the mechanics (like LBing obviously).

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

The job is mathematically balanced, lower personal dps, maximum utility, which increases the dps of others, constantly.

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I wish more players thought like you. No matter how much damage I'm doing, if I am successfully keeping utilities active, there's still some complaint about 1300 dps. There are NINs out there who only care for Raiton and Trick Attack, but because they're doing 1500, they get the praise while the 1300 is flagged as bad.

It's utterly annoying when I'm being told to stop after I break a WAR's Storm to use Dancing Edge. Mind you, I only use Dancing Edge in situations where I have no choice (ie when Thordan faces the group when we need to stack for that Rage move). I wonder if they will be happier with a less-potent Aoelian Edge from the front.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

can negate any threat your blm drg or mnk generated with a pre cast smokescreen

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Fixed that bit for you. If the BLM is pulling hate, they should just pop QS before they roll into Sharp>Ley. DRG/MNK don't have that luxur- "Elusive Jump!" ... needs to be used for mechanics within 3m of the start of the fight (potentially in the case of A5S) in every instance in Midas save for maybe A8S where you're off the boss in 27s so eh?


That said - NO NINJA should sit there and say "I am 200 behind the DRG in my group with comparable gear! GOOD ENOUGH!" because no? You can be doing 100-150 higher - or more if your DRG isn't even hitting max. Never rest on your laurels. Yeah, your raid utility is amazing, but YOU are the one who benefits most from Trick Attack. You should be using it to benefit YOURSELF the most and let the other DPS adjust to YOUR rotation.

NIN DPS is not low unless you make it low. It's comparable to DRG because the utility brought by the two is pretty close (so long as the group has a respectable BRD/MCH) to even. Just because you bring utility doesn't mean you should settle for third place in the party by 200-300 DPS. :\

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

There are NINs out there who only care for Raiton and Trick Attack, but because they're doing 1500, they get the praise while the 1300 is flagged as bad.

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My question to you: "What the heck are you using if not Raiton and Trick Attack!?"
Those are the only worthwhile uses of Ninjutsu during an encounter. Armor Crush completely eliminates the need for Huton mid-fight. Unless you're replacing Raiton with Fuma during Hypercharge (which would buff dps higher) you should probably re-evaluate why you're being ragged on for 1300 dps.

Raiton and TA exist completely independent of your raid utility - they should be used no matter what so I'm completely baffled by what this statement is trying to imply.

MNK or DRG would fall behind too if 2/5 their new tools were enmity redirects.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

My question to you: "What the heck are you using if not Raiton and Trick Attack!?"

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The top NINs have picked up on Fuma > Raiton in most cases.

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Originally Posted by PFM

So long as the game is balanced where your personal DPS output is based on how much you give back to the party, that's just gonna be NIN life.

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This is the best way to balance a game IMO (something blizzard never been able to do with WoW). My problem is that ninja might to be the best class to be tagged as a "utility" one.

I mean since when in the RPG genre the ninja class is an utility one ?

Even in the FF franchise the ninja/assassin class pretty much always been an AoE dps class (AoE spell like flames) with potential burst (weapon trow) and high evade/run rate wich can easely translate into smoke screen I guess.

I'm all fine with dragoon, monk to be the king of melee single target DPS. But ninja should definatly be the king of AoE melee DPS.

I also do not always use raiton. You can you know Fuma>Kassatsu> Raiton. Fairly certain this would be higher potency then just using Raiton all the time (maintaining trick attack, dancing edge, etc.. aside)
Can correct me if i am wrong, i do not main Ninja anyhow, lol.
Helping Group> Personal dps....
Personal dps is what too many think of these days.

If your latency allows, using raiton is always a dps gain over fuma. the only time you should be using fuma is if you have bad lag.

A good tip for maintaining dmg uptime for maximum possible dps is to use your mudra right after a GCD. Considering how bad latency was, GCD clipping was much more severe. The whole Raiton vs Fuma debate in 2.x was because of this, as well as a Bards foe req (with Raiton preferred). Now in 3.x with fixed mudra lag machninist, fuma is pretty equal with raiton (shorter cast, longer range, hyper charge rook, war storm) with less GCD clip. Always crit Raiton with kassatsu raiton unless you fudge a mudra.

Tldr; use both depending on situation, but always right when GCD starts ticking

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Originally Posted by DarkerOrange

If your latency allows, using raiton is always a dps gain over fuma. the only time you should be using fuma is if you have bad lag.

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This is an interesting comment, considering the vast majority of the top NINs in the world according to fflogs use Fuma Shuriken as frequently as or more frequently than they use Raiton. So either you're doing something wrong, or they are. I won't pretend to know which it is.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

This is an interesting comment, considering the vast majority of the top NINs in the world according to fflogs use Fuma Shuriken as frequently as or more frequently than they use Raiton. So either you're doing something wrong, or they are. I won't pretend to know which it is.

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IIRC, the reason for the frequent Fuma usage was that Raiton tends to clip into the GCD. So if DarkerOrange's argument for Raiton is simply because of the difference in potency, I believe he's incorrect.