Communism? Starting to think, like fascism, most people don't know what it means. They make the item, they chose its price, and chose how they sell it. Your choice is to buy it or not buy it. That my friend is Capitalism in a nutshell. If it made no money it wouldn't be done. If it makes a lot of money it gets more/continued support. The Mog Station falls into the later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang
That is easily as backwards as the communism comment considering it's the same development teams making all the items in the cash shop that make the respective ingame items. And it's not like data just autonomously assembles its self into cash shop items. The Devs have it develop it to. As far as development time they pick one of three choices after deciding "We're going to make <Insert item here>" they add it to the core game, they add it to the veteran rewards system, or they add it to the cash shop. nothing is lost in development here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
At least this cash shop doesn't sell required quest items or OP "Premium Gear" like some other MMOs. (Looking at you D&D Online)
6 of one half a dozen of the other really. They are rewards for prolonged subscriptions to act as incentives for continually subscribing long term. The fact that you unsub for about 2 months without visiting your housing plot and it getting demoed and the plot resold is the only actual punishment for unsubbing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
Endgame DRG Armor
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02-04-2016, 01:25 AMKaiser-Ace
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02-04-2016, 01:29 AMRhodkrI bolded what I don't agree with. Just because an NPC has access to certain gear doesn't mean that gear is separate from the NPC model. (Npcs don't have a need to change said gear, however I don't know what system SE has in place for their NPCs). Some artist(s) did put their time into making the pieces of gear for the other races.The way modeling works is that you can't simply hit a button and have that gear magically flip to the size for a given race. The textures on said peice would be a mess! No, some artists job was to model out the different outfits for each races body type (the different heights are probably attributed to blend shapes). So unless that artist is working for free, then SE did pay that persons salary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
Now that is if the gear wasn't already in the game. Thancreds body piece is the yellow custom tunic you get from the level 5 rogue quest, just not dyable. Other bits and pieces can be found throughout the game of the other Scions, just about the only one whose gear can't be found is Minfillia. Because the gear comes from existing gear with just different ways to apply the aether scope thingy they use, that's what has me split. This won't happen again do to the new looks of the Scions but well... Most of the gear did exist, so it boiled down to some repurposing and retexturig existing gear.
This is why I actually haven't spent a dime on the cash shop. I get conflicted about things like the above, and with the items being priced as high as they are, I don't really want to spend it. ($10 for glamour enterprising players could make on their own, and $5 for minions.) To be fair hiding the retainer situation doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth either. (I've had to toss out so many pieces of 'glamour' and green dungeon gear just so I'd have space to put other things.) -
02-04-2016, 01:53 AMNominousFor one, you're making the assumption that I think everyone's going around explicitly trying to 'collect' free stuff from subscriptions and memberships. I'm just saying- there is a such thing as an extraneous offering. Something that is by every meaning of the word, 'optional'. People seem to not understand what this means when it comes to gaming. It's like people understand this concept when applied to literally anything else, like it doesn't apply to gaming (I assure you, business is business, it does).Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuRoots
And from the opposite perspective, not meeting their investors, or company's sales goals is no better. If they don't, the game could easily be considered a failure in their eyes, and then it'd be shut down. The alternative to shutting it down, would be the state it's already in but worse- not being given enough funding from SE. If they can't show SE it's worth the funding through good sales, then it just won't be funded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang
This just extends to worse problems for the game overall. Less raids, less new jobs, less time to balance, or add any new content.
So really, the better option is to let the few people who want to be the 'cancer' apparently, do what they do and fund the game YOU want to play for the minimum price of entry. This is how it's always been. The few pay for the many. You can be mad all you want, but any extra money they get from things like Cash Shop go towards a better experience for you. The same way that EA has the ability to take risks on games like Mirror's Edge Catalyst (of which the original sold TERRIBLY) because of all the money the 'cancer' made them. -
02-04-2016, 02:14 AMNalienYeah, it's working real great for WoW. Record subscriber losses, but what's that? They're still making plenty of money off it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominous
Having 100k subscribers, all paying 15$ a month, or having 50k subscribers, paying the same 15$ a month, but also willing to pay 15$ frequently in the cash shop? Which is better?
From a corporate stand point, the later. From a players standpoint though?
In theory. In practice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominous
So far we've gotten EU servers. That's... About it? Perhaps the cash shop has finally afforded them a solution to housing come 3.3, but I wont hold my breath. Meanwhile the content they have been delivering has begun to be unimpressive, to say the least. We've had two major delays, back to back (Heavenswards release, and 3.1 because apparently SE can't schedule vacation time properly). We've had crap like Lords of Verminion and Diadem. People are starting to wake up and realize how recycled much of the games content is.
What better experience has the cash shop afforded me exactly? What's the major difference between Pharos Sirius (Hard) and the original Pharos Sirius? How is Diadem any better than Hunts? How much old content is actually improved upon, rather than just recycled? They seriously need to take that cash shop money, and hire some people with a damned sense of how to design content, because content has taken a step back, not forwards, or at best it has stagnated.
Ironically, PvP is where I perhaps see the most improvement in this game... Glad I enjoy PvP... Everywhere else though? They've streamlined content down to a fine art, rather than innovating or trying new things... The difference between Sastasha and Antitower? The mobs I burn down and the box I'm playing in. They haven't improved dungeons or done anything different with them. The same, to an extend, goes for Trials and Raids. When they do try to innovate, there is clearly an utter lack of any attempt at such a thing... Diadem is just a pretty box to play in. They just slapped Hunts in there (despite Hunts questionable popularity) and threw Gathering on top and called it a day, despite the obvious issues a choice like that presents (gatherers not contributing but casting lot on gear, for example). There was no attempt to work Hunts differently (and some how they're surprised when groups teamed up in Diadem in the same way they team up for Hunts...), there was no attempt to work gathering into the actual event in any meaningful way (slap temporary items to help in combat in the chests gatherers dig up, that ones free, SE). Props to the guys that made the zone and enemies, but the guys that made the event messed up. Lets not forget Relics, too... Oh look, despite extra money from the cash shop and months of subscription fees, we get... Pretty much a condensed version of the Zodiac weapon grind with the only new piece of content being the weapons themselves...
In a recent interview Yoshida mentioned how they're perhaps looking to hire content designers, and I hope to God they do, because the game really needs it at this point... The current guys putting this stuff together are just recycling the same tired ideas... Guys working on PvP are at least listening to the community and addressing some (though sadly not all) of the concerns of the PvP community. On the PvE side we're just getting the same stuff over and over, despite consistent complaints over the stuff... They clearly need some new blood coming up with ideas, because right now it seems they're going "People didn't like Atma... Oh well, lets give them Atma again!". -
02-04-2016, 02:35 AMNominousIt's a slippery slope. I don't like that FFXIV has a Cash Shop for that one specific reason. However, they made a pretty particular stance on it, because they know that. And I believe the only reason WoW does stay alive is because of it's veterans AND Cash Shop, not current loyal subscribers. They have millions of veterans that will buy an expansion to see how it is, and buy these level up tickets in the Cash Shop so they can skip grind, and buy these new mounts they missed, etc etc. It's the veteran whales that keep it alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
XI would have been the better example, as it stayed alive without one for years, even AFTER XIV. However, development costs are not nearly as high for new areas/raids, and a lot of the newer stuff in the game was just balance changes/ more levels to put into things.
And as to your other question, Cash Shop isn't a 1:1, "You give us this you get this". It's one of those things where investors and SE probably have a bigger say in. As an exaggeration, if they see x game makes 0 dollars, they can't exactly make a good argument for why it deserves any more money. So as a rough rule, not exact, Cash Shop is only a benefit, because the more money they can rake in from loose ends, the more they can prove the game is worth more than SE is giving it. That's not to say the player should have to foot the bill for this, but it is to say that sometimes the ends justify the means. Especially true when they've shown us that despite having a Cash Shop, they'd barely add many outfits to it, while adding tons through crafting recipes, tomes, and other means. -
02-04-2016, 02:49 AMColorfulTell me about it, but this forum isn't even close to being the worst in that regard. Take 5 minutes to read the Black Desert forums, people are literally defending potentional pay to win practices and costumes with beneficial stats. Defending the fact that the $100 pack doesn't give you all exclusive costumes (you get to pick one, even though they're identical). Why? To sell you other costumes for that 10% EXP bonus. People treat companies like they're besties when in reality they have one goal in mind, and that's to get to your wallet. Yoshida may have the best intentions in the world for his fans, but the investors don't. Why needlessly defend these practices? Yeah, I used to do it but I've changed for the better I'd like to think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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02-04-2016, 02:52 AMNalienMy concern is that this isn't happening. I get the sense SE is taking the majority of profits from XIV, and investing them elsewhere. One wonders where they got the money to finally dust off VII...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominous
That makes sense, of course, but SE really needs to invest in XIV more IMO. The music, lore and world they've created are truly great, but the way stuff is being delivered to us at this point... It leaves something to be desired... The game is great, but the gameplay is lacking...
Hopefully Yoshida was serious when he said they were looking to hire new content designers, and profits from XIV can convince SE to invest in that sort of thing, but I'll believe it when I see it... Once bitten, twice shy, when they announced Diadem that is what I was hoping for, a sign that they're doing something differently at last, instead I got the same tired Hunt formula, followed up by Anima weapons being almost a carbon copy of Zodiacs quest objectives... When I see stuff like that alongside the cash shop, it goes from a harmless little bonus to a deadly tumor. If they want to continue justifying the cash shop, they're going to have to start showing me the benefits, because right now all I see is the EU server... -
02-04-2016, 02:54 AMFelis
Just make them specialist recipes
Consumism =/= CommunismQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace
Communism? Starting to think, like fascism, most people don't know what it means. They make the item, they chose its price, and chose how they sell it. Your choice is to buy it or not buy it. That my friend is Capitalism in a nutshell. If it made no money it wouldn't be done. If it makes a lot of money it gets more/continued support. The Mog Station falls into the later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang
Consumism is more like to buy something just to have it -
02-04-2016, 03:02 AMKaiser-AceThe thing is, that's all investors. They see "Oh, since we've got this new project that we'll drag out to make billions, lets take some of the spare millions of Tabata, Nomura, and Yoshida's budgets so we can fund this stupidly over priced idea that's probably going to be poorly received anyway." And all the dev teams can do is silently weep as their budgets are drained with out any say in the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
The Devs are as much slaves to the corporate big wigs as we are. At least Yoshida's team seems to view us as more than just bank accounts and credit card numbers. -
02-04-2016, 04:48 AMKaiser-AceI swear that said Communism when I read it. I apologize then. Haven't slept in almost 20 hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis