Hardcore World

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Originally Posted by PArcher

The op basically wants A3S abd A4S difficulty in the open world. Tons of people quit because that is too hard for them.

Why would this be a good idea to implement again?

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Actually they are different kinds of difficulty. So Alexander Savage has really nothing to do with this. Open Content Hardness is a whole nother and different beast altogether. You won't have super strats in an Open World since there is no invisible walls, it would have to be designed completely different.

Alexander difficulty comes from its Strats and DPS checks.

Instanced, and Open Content have always been different.


Open World Dungeons, Contested, have monsters that are tough, and as HARD as bosses, but do not have the massive health pools either. It also requires your party to know the environment as if not to pull more then they should. You also have zones with "MANY" nameds, all of them have simple but complex strategies and are hard to kill on their own. However, if your too slow, the monsters around the name repop and if you die - unlike Savage, you don't start at the boss, you start at the beginning of the zone and have to go all the way down again. You also have to fight other groups for nameds. So - no, its nothing like Savage.

If we get Open World - or more open world content. It also allows the developers to design classes that have this little thing called "Crowd Control" *gasp* yeah I know, crazy right?

FFXIV/WoW/Other MMOs have literally no Crowd Control anymore.

Not to say your wrong in it being difficult. However, I "hate" Savage myself. I don't like that kind of content or difficulty. However, I LOVE the difficulty of Open World content because of the thrill, competition, and fighting for content.

It is NOT the same. That is the point i'm making. ;)

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Originally Posted by PArcher

The op basically wants A3S abd A4S difficulty in the open world. Tons of people quit because that is too hard for them.

Why would this be a good idea to implement again?

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How can any open world mob have savage difficulty? Most of the mechanics are built on team coordination and being positioned in small arena.
Harder difficulty on mobs that are positioned in open world could mean that they would have more HP, do more DPS, do high amount of AoEs that would give you only a second to dodge and would require you to save cooldowns to kill them alone and maybe have skills without castbars so you would actually have to watch the mob. But saying they would have savage difficulty is nonsense. They wouldn't implement a normal mob that would take you weeks of training to kill, we are still talking about open world mob.
Even mobs in Diadem that were supposed to be hard are just huge HP bags which posses absolutely no threat to anyone.

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Plus I am pretty sure it isn't even possible at this moment to have open world encounter that would use mechanics aimed on different people who wouldn't even be party members. Stuff like Carnage in A4S or tethers in A3S. I believe you have to be in a party and a separated instance which registers you as a single party to be able to be influenced by such "savage" skills.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Harder difficulty on mobs that are positioned in open world could mean that they would have more HP, do more DPS, do high amount of AoEs that would give you only a second to dodge and would require you to save cooldowns to kill them alone and maybe have skills without castbars so you would actually have to watch the mob. But saying they would have savage difficulty is nonsense..

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That is the issue with it. Open World bosses that are huge HP soaks, would just be stupid.

EVERYTHING, including the non-named monsters have to be hard. The "nameds" being a bit harder. However, the monsters you fight by the name also need to have something you want. As in - Nothing is worthless to kill.

However, if you don't kill the boss fast enough, the npcs around the boss swarm you and respawn. (Respawn timer is 5-10 minutes.)

Normal Monster:
Hard, challenging, has a chance to drop good loot.

Boss Monster:
1.5x more health, damage, a special ability, 100% chance to drop that same loot piece.

Placeholder Monster:
1.25x more health, damage, a different special ability. Must be killed to spawn the boss.

Now, there won't just be one boss per zone. There is like 30, including one that wanders around and needs a raid to kill (24 people) (SUPER HARD, JUST DESTROYS normal groups, avoid at all costs.)

So...basically you guys want to play Final Fantasy 11 with a 14 re-skin?

Seriously, players less and less want "hardcore" mechanics like punishment upon death, and tedious overworld travel through dangerous areas.

"Hardcore" MMO's in the past years have been huge flops and the money is clear, players don't want them anymore. SE would not spend this time, almost re-designing everything in a game and dedicating it to it's own server, just so a small majority can enjoy it.

They have a history of removing difficult, tedious content from the game. See: Steps of Faith, Bees from original Amdapor, the fact that Savage difficulty is being reduced in the new raid (because not enough people were playing it).

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

So...basically you guys want to play Final Fantasy 11 with a 14 re-skin?

Seriously, players less and less want "hardcore" mechanics like punishment upon death, and tedious overworld travel through dangerous areas.

"Hardcore" MMO's in the past years have been huge flops and the money is clear, players don't want them anymore. SE would not spend this time, almost re-designing everything in a game and dedicating it to it's own server, just so a small majority can enjoy it.

They have a history of removing difficult, tedious content from the game. See: Steps of Faith, Bees from original Amdapor, the fact that Savage difficulty is being reduced in the new raid (because not enough people were playing it).

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Which MMOs like that have been FLOPS?

Also, this is "Open World" content, those examples are all instances. Instanced Content and Open World Content are COMPLETELY different. Its Night and Day. Water and Lava. Girl and Boy!

Casual for me it's just the guy that play angry birds or something like that. This is a RPG. Most of people that play RPG games play on easy or normal mode. But they should make a ''hardcore gamers servres'' for people that wanna it.

Unless you have a large chunk of the player base wanting this, the devs aren't going to waste money.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

"Hardcore" MMO's in the past years have been huge flops and the money is clear, players don't want them anymore.

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TIL every MMO before World of Warcraft was a flop. Huh.

This is what I looked for in mmo's for years. Then I had kids. Now I'm lucky if I get to play 30 minutes to an hour a night and I definitely don't want to spend 20 minutes traveling somewhere or have the chance of losing any substantial progress to death. I want to log on, play however long I'm able to and feel like I've made some progress.

I started playing mmo's with EQ in 1999. I was 12 at the time and spent every waking hour playing. Back then I had nothing better to do than spend hours traveling across the world, and level up to level 22 17 times (hill giants in kunark...). Maybe my generation of mmo players is all grown up and the kids who grew up on WoW don't know any different. Either way, I don't see how adding a single server to cater to the needs of a small niche population could hurt anybody. Probably won't happen, but should. Especially now that FFXI is out of the equation. I also played it and loved my time there.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

They tried to make the game more Hardcore with Alexander Savage which caused a bunch of people, hardcore and casual alike, to quit the game. As such, they'll probably never do anything hardcore again for a long time.

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Yup agreed.

Not only that, 3.0 feels much like 2.0 except that .. we can fly..

So people get bored, fate-fate-fate, only 2 dungeons per patch, new tomes so gear gets outdone too quickly, if you are late you wait till next patch and then you catch on.. unless you really like the looks of gear, which like.. hmm.. let's say not that much lol

I can't wait the next patch and up to 4.0 to see what they'll bring.. then hopefully by the time, no other great-souding game pops up.

So much potential in here I can see this game for 10 years!