How about a non-support ranged dps?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I think if said healer had ways to mitigate those types of spells, it could work. Maybe a healer version of Hallowed Ground? Or even just something like "Reduces one melee ranged attack by 50%". If Dancer were the melee healer, then I imagine a lot of their mechanics would involve dodging. So that's another way around it.

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Judgement Nisi is a DoT on the healer that spreads to people that you touch and puts a DoT on them as well. There's two different ones and getting people with the different DoT's too close together will kill you instantly if memory serves. Searing Wind does AoE damage and a knockback centered on the healer with the debuff. Even a healer version of Hallowed Ground wouldn't work on either one and Esuna doesn't remove them. The problem is their effect on the party, not on the healer themselves.

Wanna see what Bards get in EQ2 in the early stages of the games life that will make you cry because they are cool?

Don't kill the Messenger:
Increases the groups base critical chance by 12.5% (A song, no other cost besides your limited by how many songs you can have.)

Allegro:
Increases the groups base casting speed by up to 12.5%. (I think high ranked version talented also reduces all GCDs by 12.5% as well!)

Songster's Luck
Increases the groups base accuracy by 12.5%

Selo's Accelerando
A song that increases the movement speed of the bard's group. It suspends during combat.
Increases movement speed of the group by 25%. Suspends when combat starts.

Bria's Inspiring Ballad
Increases Mana Regeneration of the group by a great bit.

Riana's Relentless Tune
Increases Attack Speed of the group by 12.5%

Luck of the Dirge
12% chance to absorb '1' attack when hit by anything.

Don't you wish bards and machinists had these cool types of abilities?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Ok but this isn't Warhammer etc. Unless this new healer job were to have high defense...

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Of course they would need better defense, but I imagine it something alongside melee dps.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

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There could be ways around it. For example the melee healer could build up resources in melee combat while having abilities at hand when they can't be in melee. They would of course need some range healing skills. For example the red mage could be based aroud using teleports to jump between melee and range. Or they could have a "dummy" to which the negative effects would be redirected and which could soke up some damage for them.

Melee healers are not entirely impossible, it would just require some development time and I believe it would be unique playstyle from the current ones, which makes it more than appealing to at least consider.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Of course they would need better defense, but I imagine it something alongside melee dps.



There could be ways around it. For example the melee healer could build up resources in melee combat while having abilities at hand when they can't be in melee. They would of course need some range healing skills. For example the red mage could be based aroud using teleports to jump between melee and range. Or they could have a "dummy" to which the negative effects would be redirected and which could soke up some damage for them.

Melee healers are not entirely impossible, it would just require some development time and I believe it would be unique playstyle from the current ones, which makes it more than appealing to at least consider.

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Melee Healers are amazing and fun. Just look at Inquisitor skills as an example:

Inquest
An augmentation placed on an ally that grants them a chance at draining power from the target with every successful spell or attack, and returning a portion of this power back to the inquisitor. This spell does not require any concentration, but can only be maintained on a single ally.

Inquisition
Forces an enemy to radiate heals to your allies. The closer your allies are to that enemy, the greater the heals.

Malevolent Diatribe
A group augmentation that heals an ally when they are attacked, and has a limited number of heals before expiring.

You could just make his healing combo into aoe healing spells around him.

He can also use a Mace or Flail as his main weapon.

Inquisitors used Plate Armor and had high physical defense, but low magical defense if I remember. They were made for healing in the thick of it and dealing a lot of damage but were not as good at healing as the other healers, but better ones (higher level) had good damage and good healing.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Melee healers are not entirely impossible, it would just require some development time and I believe it would be unique playstyle from the current ones, which makes it more than appealing to at least consider.

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It being impossible is not the problem, it's mechanics that interfere with a typical composition of 2 melees (which can get really extensive with player-targetted, and instead all you'll really get is a healer that is incredibly gimmicky), or healer exclusive mechanics such as searing winds that prevent you from healing anyone if you were limited to melee heals (or again, bottle neck you to a healer with incredibly gimmicky skills). At that point, encounters would have to be designed with that in mind and we're already limited on encounter mechanics as it is.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

It being impossible is not the problem, it's mechanics that interfere with a typical composition of 2 melees (which can get really extensive with player-targetted, and instead all you'll really get is a healer that is incredibly gimmicky), or healer exclusive mechanics such as searing winds that prevent you from healing anyone if you were limited to melee heals (or again, bottle neck you to a healer with incredibly gimmicky skills). At that point, encounters would have to be designed with that in mind and we're already limited on encounter mechanics as it is.

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I wonder if this line of thought wasn't one of the reasons which created the MCH/BRD copy paste issue.

We are limited only by the resources, development decisions and creativity. Both mechanics and jobs can be adjusted.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I think if said healer had ways to mitigate those types of spells, it could work. Maybe a healer version of Hallowed Ground? Or even just something like "Reduces one melee ranged attack by 50%". If Dancer were the melee healer, then I imagine a lot of their mechanics would involve dodging. So that's another way around it.

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The problem is these are moves specifically meant to kill anyone near the healer, forcing them to max out their healing range.

How about artillery? Heavy burst damage? No support skills but heavy hitting combos that need setup time and protection by the rest of the team? Kind of an anti support class.

Dual Pistol class.
Pure DPS, no support, some utility (a ranged DRG/MNK/NIN)
Very low per hit damage.
Insanely fast attacking. (Mechanics arround increasing auto-attack hits and damage).

... Ok, ill go to play gunslinger to RO.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

Agreed. I don't understand their decision to make mechanic a near carbon copy of BRD.

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They made it a support because every serious raiding group needs one, so every group needed a bard. So the game really needed an alternative to be available. People wouldnt bring a MCH instead of BRD if MCH wouldnt be able to provide the same support, which is the reason that every group brought a bard in the first place.

In terms or ranged dps, the slot it would compete with would be the 2nd melee, since every group wants 1 support, 1 mage (for magic dps) and 1 melee for LB. At that point you have one fourth slot free, which generally would be given to a melee because they provide the highest raid dps. This leaves a pure ranged dps in a very odd spot, since on one hand, why would you bring it if it wouldnt provide the same dps as a melee and on the other hand how would it be balanced, if it provided the same raid dps as a melee but had the advantage of being ranged? Food for thought.

The only solution would be if they thought of an entirely new sub role in the meta that only the pure ranged dps provided.