The Bottom Feeders: Moves You Never Use and Why.

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Originally Posted by Februs

2. Drk: Abyssal Drain.

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Blood Price + Dark Arts + Abyssal Drain = 15 seconds of Immortality

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Originally Posted by Februs

This is actually a common problem with Divine Veil. I try to make myself as noticeable as possible when casting it so that the healers know to use it, but it is a VERY RARE DAY when I get a healer who actually paid attention enough to activate it. It's one of the few moves I've actually considered putting a macro to, just because I cannot count the number of times that the effect of Divine Veil was activated after the AoE move I was hoping to help mitigate because they missed it or just didn't recognize the icon.

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Do the macro, it really helps in situations where a healer has eyes everywhere. That little text line with a beep gets the attention needed. =)

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Originally Posted by MrTherm

Divine Veil needs ALOT of love. Its way to convoluted to use most of the time. For what it does, it shouldn't require a healer to activate, and i also question if the range shouldn't be increased due to the size of most arenas we fight in raid wise. Non-raid. It has no use. Solo... HA!

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I love Divine Veil ... when it actually works.In some normal content, the barrier effect can seriously take a load off the healers, but it's yet another Pld move that has ZERO utility for the Pld himself. That's kind of silly. I always thought that the Veil should cause some sort of effect on the Pld besides the barrier. Everyone else gets the barrier, but the Pld gets... something else. I dunno. The way it is right now, it's close to the bottom of the barrel, because I can't use it for myself.

I agree that Undead should have a visual que of some kind (so should Divine Veil, for that matter, so healers know to activate it). It's not critical, because I can usually inform the healer in advance of when I plan to use it (Ie: Ravana's Soak mechanic), but there are times when they let that timer get dangerously close to dead...

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Originally Posted by Februs

Two, tether should be longer in my opinion. The proximity restriction tends to make the move even less useful, especially because, for some bizarre reason, a lot of healers I've covered tend to
run away from me. If you see a tether to the Pld, WHY ARE YOU RUNNING AWAY??

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Every single fight with a tether mechanic ends with Bad Things if you ignore it. Cover's visual cue literally says "run away", based on previous content experience.

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Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

Every single fight with a tether mechanic ends with Bad Things if you ignore it. Cover's visual cue literally says "run away", based on previous content experience.

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This made me laugh pretty hard, but it is very true lol. Maybe I should come up with a macro for Cover as well... so they are less alarmed when I use it (if ever).

Fracture is NOT a DPS loss for WAR and should only be forgone if you will lose Eye if you apply it, otherwise keep it up at all times. Also Unchained is one of WARs best tools. It is an offensive and defensive CD rolled into one. In situations where you want to be on Defience as much as possible it is great for aggro and DPS and in situations where you are able to stance dance fluff or some weak cleaves it can be used as a defensive CD by entering defience, popping Unchained, and then going back to Deliverence after it is over. I am not even gonna go into the aggro springboard effect it provides. Saying Unchained is bad is almost as dumb as saying Path is bad because you never really use it.

For WAR there are no useless or really any underused moves.

For DrK I do not like the redundancy of Abyssal Drain.

Half of PLDs kit is useless or situational at best.

I like to think of it more as "if I had to lose an ability/weaponskill, which would I choose?"

PLD - Clemency. I was tempted to pick Cover, but Cover's effect is unique, which could potentially be game-changing if an encounter accommodated it.

DRK - Abyssal Drain. Redundant with Unleash, and, if I had to pick one, I would rather have Unleash.

WAR - Fracture. Very slight DPS gain. Certainly not useless, but I wouldn't miss it.

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Originally Posted by Exodus_Kenpachi

Fracture is NOT a DPS loss for WAR / Saying Unchained is bad is almost as dumb as saying Path is bad because you never really use it.

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Such an impassioned response! Very good! ... but I don't think anyone actually said Fracture or Unchained were "bad." Someone did ask if Fracture was a Dps loss for Pld/Drk (which it is), but I don't recall anyone saying it was "bad," least of all for Warriors. Same goes for Unchained. Some may have mentioned they don't use it as often, but I don't think anyone is saying it's a "Bad" move.

In fact, this is a sentiment I've seen echoed by a few responses in this thread so far. So, lets clarify for a second: The idea is not to strictly identify moves which are "bad" or "useless" in some way. The idea is only to identify which moves you use the least in your rotation, why, and what might be done to increase your usage of said move.

Unfortunately, in many cases (Pld, I'm looking at you), the problem is inherent in the move itself (Ie: Tempered Will, Divine Veil, Cover, etc) and the absolute "best" solution would be for SE to modify the move so to give it better utility, however that may not always be the case. My original example of Unchained was just something I picked off of the top of my head. I did not mean to imply it was somehow "bad." I only meant that, out of the Warrior toolkit, it might go under utilized for longer stints of time over other moves (such as Inner Beast which might take priority). In that regard, the idea would be for more experienced players, such as yourself, to enlighten those on a better method of utility.

To that effect, your explanation of how to stance dance while using Unchained is a wonderful example of how a player who is under-using Unchained might get more use out of it. Keep these kind of insight coming if you have any more of them.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

PLD - Clemency. I was tempted to pick Cover, but Cover's effect is unique, which could potentially be game-changing if an encounter accommodated it.

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Cover certainly is a unique move that would have (and has had in some cases) very serious game-changing worth; however the extreme restrictions caused by its situation specific usage, range, and overall raid utility to put it in second place for me over Clemency. As much as Clemency does not stand in for healers, and healers most often make Clemency seem redundant, I find that the move has a very specific usage that has provided extreme benefits in almost every Trial/Raid. The ability to cast Clemency during the cast bar of a Boss's AoE moves or Tank buster is fantastic.

A similar tactic was commonly done by Pld's pre-3.0 with Stoneskin. Using SS, you could give yourself extra buff against the hit, or give the healer precious extra seconds to heal you up immediately after the hit. You could also save the bacon of a party member who stood in stupid one too many times (though this was less common and not as preferable to using it on yourself at the appropriate moment). However, SS was always a borrowed move. Now Pld's have a move they can use to a similar effect out of their own toolkit.

In regards to the same style of usage, Clemency actually surpasses the utility of StoneSkin. Direct cast on yourself can net you anywhere from 3k-over 5k depending on your Str/Det loadout and if you are using Convalescence (I think I've personally hit over 7k with a crit, but I can't recall the exact number). So if you time the cast to hit directly after a Tank buster, you are dramatically helping your healers. For AoE moves that hit the entire party, you can time the cast to effectively free the healer from healing one of your party members, and, even if the healer gets to them first, you still are easing their load by getting that 50% back to yourself. It's a beautiful move when used correctly. You just have to be very, very, careful with the timing.

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Originally Posted by Februs

I actually wonder about this. I've always been curious how the enmity gen compares between these two moves

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Abyssal Drain and Unleash both generate the exact same enmity. Unleash is 100 x6 and AD is 120 x5. The ONLY difference is the damage you deal. When everything is gathered properly you SHOULD be spamming AD instead of Unleash in order to deal maximum AoE damage. If other DRKs are losing enmity to you, they either were using less STR than you, or just didn't SPAM the move but just used it very VERY sparingly. Unleash should ONLY be useful in the case you NEED to hit everything AROUND you instead of around your target, OR if you are in the middle of a combo and need snap AoE enmity.