Story Dungeons / Testing Solo DPS Mechanic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

Sticking a required DPS check in a story dungeon that is designed to make bad DPS realize they are bad will either stonewall people who are not being tested or waste the time of those who don't have to be.

If you want a required DPS check to force bad dps to realize they are bad, I would suggest a proving grounds situation like WoW did (still does? Not sure really) that a player has to do in order access the Heroic dungeons for that particular role. DPS would have to output a certain amount of dps before they can do expert roulette or something, Tanks have to be able to maintain aggro for x amount of minutes while NPC dps kill a series of mobs, healers gotta make sure each player maintains X% of health for the duration of a trail. Things like that.

A dps check in the middle of a required dungeon with other people involved...no I personally feel that would just cause more harm than good.

---

Let's turn this logic on its head.

"Stick a healer check (all parties) in DF and it will do more harm than good."

If a healer is epic fail then the group fails. If the tank is epic fail the group might fail. If the DPS is epic fail... just takes longer. And the DPS will never know they have something they need to work on.

I think this should be a trial thing that all classes should have as an optional idea. Take the part about splitting two DPS and having them fight the dummy and kill it in under 60 seconds. Make optional trials for people level 60 (doable once every week or so regardless of class) that scale based on item level and reward you with perhaps something like Eso tomes that don't count toward the weekly cap. For example the dummy would have less HP for an i170 than an i190.

Yes, you could argue people would merely tweak their item levels until they can hit the check but if the hp thresholds are designed that the person has to do their standard rotation perfectly for at least 40 seconds it would be something. For heals or tanks it could be similar such as having to hold aggro off a dummy group for 60 seconds with no more than 1 or 2 switches while mitigating x amount of damage and for healers keeping an NPC alive (similar to Estinien in Aery) while killing various adds that spawn. These things would be optional but the benefits of doing them weekly would be incentive for even the more casual players to try and step their game up.

I usually would only be for mandatory DPS tests before you enter "harder", optional content (Alex Normal, EX primals).
But lately I have been in like 3 Bismarck HM groups, that were unable to clear the double-snake DPS check, despite every time having at least 2 of the DPS synced, despite me putting up Cleric Stance SCH DoTs on both of them (can't really do more DPS till at least one dies, the damage coming out is not solo-healable), and despite LB1 being used on the second snake...

It's really frustrating when you have to sit for almost an hour in content that just WON'T get cleared, and you can't even tell who the underperformer is because LADIE-FUCKING-DA parsers are forbidden. GJ SE.

This seems like a good idea to me.

To the person saying that this would make dps queues worse and allow dps to hold tanks and healers hostage....how so?

Tanks and healers can already hold the group hostage themselves. DPS have to go wherever the wind blows. If anything, dps knowing they would have an individual check on their damage would be scared into switching to tank or healer, which would alleviate queues by reducing the number of dps and increasing the number of healers/tanks.

Two DPS, ones decent the others terrible but doesn't know it. Get tot his DPS check Idea. Decent DPS is pushing numbers required, terrible player is vastly underperforming, because they are terrible. DPS check fails. Terrible DPS blames the good DPS because, ya know, ego. Has been unknowingly carried through all content prior, so in their mind can't be them.

AKA, terrible DPS blames decent DPS for failure because Terrible DPS's EGO is too big to even imagine they failed. So must be the other players fault.

Having 1 for each DPS would show better.

SWToR had an interesting boss fight in one of their raids. was a mini boss for each player (you couldn't help others) with varying levels of HP. DPS took the highest HP ones, tanks the mid, healers the lowest (or it could have been the reverse of tanks and healers, been a while XD ).

Some of you people are seriously obsessed with this whole DPS thing. I'm not even being facetious or hyperbolic. You're obsessed.

Every time I come to these forums, there's threads, and post upon post of people going on about needing a parser. I've seen threads that have nothing to do with any of that, somehow get dragged into "why XIV needs a parser".

You're obsessed.

"Numbers!!!! Numbers!!! It's all about the numbers!!! I must know the numbers!!! Give me the numbers!!! All that matters are the numbers!!! I don't care that we're downing the enemies and clearing the content! That's not what matters! What's matters is the numbers!!! Numbers, SE! We need the numbers!!"

Are welogging into a game, or a Graphical Online Math Simulator?

With how outright obsessed - and calling it obsessed is not an exaggeration at this point - some people are with needing to know the numbers(!) around here, does anyone really believe that these people want them provided for purely benevolent reasons, and that it won't be abused, or used as a divisive way to separate the community?

And don't say "no no, we won't abuse it like that!", when people are freely suggesting wanting it as "a way to know who the bad players are". People are already showing their intentions, and don't even know it. It's like a kid standing with one hand in a cookie jar, insisting he's not trying to take a cookie.

People are insisting the abuse won't happen. Thing is... it already is happening. People already find ways to divide the community and play the "us vs them" game in this community. People are already using the unofficial parser to bash other players and tell them how bad they are, and/or kick them from groups. That cat is already out of the bag, and saying it "won't happen" is moot. It already does happen. No need for SE to support and endorse the behavior by giving them an official one.

Besides, those who really "must know the numbers!!!" ("for their own benefit"... of course), already have a way to find out. Yes, I know, it's not permitted, so you can't openly tell someone how bad your parser numbers say they are without risk to your account. There's demonstrably good reason for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Preypacer

*snip*

---

People like you are totally obsessed with preventing full information from reaching players.

I won't go over your "possible abuse" arguments, as that's COMPLETELY irrelevant. If abuse happens it needs to be handled by SE. We should not be denied good things just because some rotten apples might abuse it! Those will find a way to bash others with or without a parser.

And yes, we NEED to know who the bad players in a group are when content is not getting cleared! You can easily see it when tanks suck, you can easily see it when healers suck, but you CAN'T see it when DPS suck. Why should people spend an hour bashing their heads against a DPS check with 0 progress, eventually disbanding the whole party instead of just removing the problem (either telling the underperformer how to do it better, or kicking them - this already happens to tanks and healers)?

And of course the main questions I ask people like you:
Why are tanks and healers expected to perform at 120% of their job requirements?
Why can DPS get by with less than 20% of their job requirements (outside of like 2 mandatory trials, and a bunch optional ones)?

Bad DPS players should just play as tanks. At least they'd make up for their would-be terrible DPS by giving other competent DPS players shorter queues.

And they might just learn how bad it is for a tank and healer when there are bad DPS.

But hey doesn't matter. SE prioritizes players who can't be bothered to learn the game they painstakingly designed to those who actually love and bother to learn how to play the game.

Imagine if Dark Souls was constantly changed to become easier and easier to cater to people who can't be bothered to learn or improve. Instead of making them want to play your game more, you're only going to push those who loved your game for the challenge away.

New players aren't an infinite resource. When the number of players leaving your game start growing larger, you will get a situation like many other popular titles before where older players leave and refuse to return because it is not the same game they were promised anymore.

I think mostly the way they do things is fine. As long as SE is putting the DPS checks near the front of the fights and not at the end. They usually have been pretty good about that with things like Shiva Golems, Bismark chitin, and Faust. Let groups know straight away whether their dps is up to par or not.

The rest comes down to just making lots of content at various skill levels so everyone is having fun. This is the part SE is failing at super hard. SE seems content just releasing 2 cakewalk dungeons and a cakewalk raid every 4-5 months. I can see this ending badly, as half the subscribers are going to get bored of this pretty quick. Heavensward should have given people more endgame options, not taking the one thing we had and making it pointless after a few weeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

I think mostly the way they do things is fine. As long as SE is putting the DPS checks near the front of the fights and not at the end.

---

I'm good with the DPS check being in the front of a fight... as long as the DPS's are split and doing it solo. The entire point is to make sure the DPS has some legit feedback loop that tells them if they need to improve or not.