NIN -- how does everyone else feel we're doing?

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Originally Posted by Bearrier

Chakra doesn't help party survival. I think Monk should be lower than DRG, but not this big of a gap. It's almost 80-100 DPS difference between Monk and DRG. Ninja is fine where it stands. Maybe add a little more damage with duality and DWAD, but it shouldn't be too big.

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There's no reason the melee DPS shouldn't be near equal in terms of DPS. Each one brings a buff/debuff. Each one is useful.

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Originally Posted by Uppers

I don't see you mentioning chakra and dragon kick either. Both of which really help the party's survival; therefore, monks should be considered support dps as well with your logic.

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Lawd halp us. 30 Dps difference when he clearly states he doesn't have ilvl190 accessories due to accuracy issues. That's a gear development problem not a class one.

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Originally Posted by Bearrier

Chakra doesn't help party survival. I think Monk should be lower than DRG, but not this big of a gap. It's almost 80-100 DPS difference between Monk and DRG. Ninja is fine where it stands. Maybe add a little more damage with duality and DWAD, but it shouldn't be too big.

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Yeah I meant mantra not chakra

The problem with that is why would you take a DRG then. We would be back to 2.0 where no groups take DRG again. DRG only buffs himself and ranged physical. Battle litany is great, but it's not worth taking DRG for it when monks have mantra and DK and Ninjas have Goad and TA.

You take a drg because they are at least 100-200 dps over monks or nins. Utility doesn't mean jack for a class that can push out that much more dps than its' competitor.

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Originally Posted by Bearrier

The problem with that is why would you take a DRG then. We would be back to 2.0 where no groups take DRG again. DRG only buffs himself and ranged physical. Battle litany is great, but it's not worth taking DRG for it when monks have mantra and DK and Ninjas have Goad and TA.

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How is a 10% permanent buff to ranged DPS not helping? 15% Crit for 20s? Little TP issues and better AoE than the other two melee? I don't see why anyone wouldn't want one.

Goad is NOT an ability that makes or breaks a static. All a NIN brings is Trick Attack which is only 10% damage once a minute. While nice, that isn't game breaking by any means.

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Originally Posted by Uppers

You take a drg because they are at least 100-200 dps over monks or nins. Utility doesn't mean jack for a class that can push out that much more dps than its' competitor.

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Exactly, and that's why I think it's fine right now where we are. Monk dps is the problem right now not NIN. NIN is fine. Sure SE can add a bit more damage and I hope to god they stop with the skill speed overloaded gear, but you can run NIN in your party fine.

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Originally Posted by Bearrier

Exactly, and that's why I think it's fine right now where we are. Monk dps is the problem right now not NIN. NIN is fine. Sure SE can add a bit more damage and I hope to god they stop with the skill speed overloaded gear, but you can run NIN in your party fine.

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Viable =/= optimal.

If NIN, MNK, and DRG all did near equal DPS, no one would suffer and nothing bad would come about. In the past DRG did horrible DPS and offered no uility. That's why they weren't given raid spots. Now they offer great DPS and some utility. DRG is the only class in the game that is basically required in every static. That's a design flaw. If NIN and MNK were doing equal DPS, raid groups would simply take whoever they wanted. Right now every good static gets a DRG because of their sheer DPS. It'd be much better if they could take a NIN or a MNK as well if they wanted, but that's not the case.

I don't see how being 10-20% behind DRG in DPS is "balanced".

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Originally Posted by Bearrier

Exactly, and that's why I think it's fine right now where we are. Monk dps is the problem right now not NIN. NIN is fine. Sure SE can add a bit more damage and I hope to god they stop with the skill speed overloaded gear, but you can run NIN in your party fine.

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This is starting to become a cyclical argument with no real substance. With your logic with the equality of mnks and nins in terms of dps (which is not true), mnks are fine where they are because they bring just as much utility to the raid as nins.

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Originally Posted by Layke

How is a 10% permanent buff to ranged DPS not helping? 15% Crit for 20s? Little TP issues and better AoE than the other two melee? I don't see why anyone wouldn't want one.

Goad is NOT an ability that makes or breaks a static. All a NIN brings is Trick Attack which is only 10% damage once a minute. While nice, that isn't game breaking by any means.

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It is helping, but it isn't that big compared to TA and Goad. TA boosts the party's dps by 3%ish last time I checked. Piercing isn't adding that much. It only benefits 2 people in your static if you're running a progression based party comp (2 melee, 1 support, 1 caster). Goad does help a lot especially in A2 Savage and onwards. Monk has better AOE than DRG unless DRG doesn't run out of TP.