A1 Savage Astrologian PoV

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Originally Posted by kiraan

Let's play the quote game!

Trust? No, just NO, its just not efficient at all to use AoE as AST, and you have no CD to boost the potency either. AoE are in the base healing kit of every healer. When i play AST, i'm trying to avoid doing them as much as i can because i don't have the mana safety of SCH, or the increase potency of WHM. If for you AST should just put some regen here and there, and let your healing partner carry you, i don't know what to say

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What? AoE healing is the base of all healers? SCH 2.0 had inefficient AoE healing and whilst it has a tiny smidge more utlity in 3.0 . Succor was/is mainly prepatory and is still completely inefficient to spam. On A1 savage a bard will ballad during the run phase regardless if its a WHM/SCH combo or an AST/SCH combo. Maybe be a bit less conservative and push out a bit more HPS? The AST in the video was also quite conservative in the pretty much perfect kill video.

Even for my somewhat casual raid group astro has been fine, (about 12 hours a week raiding).
It is really not that hard to do A1 as Astro. We got server first on our server with me as astro, and it took 3 pulls to kill it the second time, and wipes were not healing issues.
A2 is too easy to even bother comparing classes.
A3 We have been working on and synastry is pretty clutch. The enrage is just really tight, and we don't have the time/resources/care to change our group comp to squeeze out more dps (example changing from monk/pally -> darknight/ninja), so maybe next week with weapons.

I think people are just not good at the class, and that makes sense it takes far more timing and off gcd ability clicking than a whm. The healing potency for time is nearly identical for basic spam abilities. 5% potency loss for casting 5 % faster and 5 % less mana use. Considering the amount of over healing a whm ability typically does (if your saying you don't overheal at least 5% your on drugs) it can actually end up more mana efficient, and I believe this will be even more true with people buying weapons next week (thus more overhealing).
The higher alpha heal on your HoTs also means you its less of a risk to use it when the tank isn't topped off, leading to more challenging but more effective timing (thus less overhealing again).

For buffs synastry is an amazing cooldown, for 2 target healing (every savage?), it just has to be coordinated with your other healer, example in a3 is let them dps during it by force taking the damage down buff, or in A1 by healing a tank and aspecific prey target. I also think people just have to be more calculated and proactive in using spear on luminiferous and using celestial on lum+ewar+lightspeed combinations, which means you can end with far more mana per time than a whm.


Now I don't even think its nearly as a good as a sch for its role. Hell act 2 is probably easiest with sch/sch, because 0 aoe healing needed, which is a separate issue. But as far as a whm equivalent I think it is perfect. (Even better in meeting dps checks and burst 2 target healing.)

I think as people get better gear, for more buffer hp and larger heals (more overhealing), this will become abundantly apparent.

I just think its funny when people who can't get past A1 as a WHM are saying its a bad class. I just think there are too many people who have yet to practice it enough / don't understand the mechanics of it / can't handle clicking more buttons faster.

that scholar was badass for real though, he did way more work than that astro

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Originally Posted by Staris

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Let haters hate. Everything you said is true and some players are just bitching because they need jobs to be unbalanced so they can be carried by other people. They bitch about every single aspect of everything and can't realize that different jobs require different strategies, and the group in the video just used one strategy over another. I was doing A1 Savage as SCH yesterday, because my group can't meet DPS checks without me going over 460 DPS on Faust as SCH (my peak was 560), and during oppressors I was having to do a lot to help my WHM partner, because he was struggling to keep his targets alive (we split the group in two, to not overheal). Next week, I'll get back to my Astro (which was doing fine, by the way) and things will be easier, since I spotted a lot of windows to use my specific cooldowns during the Oppressors and my AoE healing will be better than SCH's even in Nocturnal.

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Originally Posted by Staris

I think people are just not good at the class, and that makes sense it takes far more timing and off gcd ability clicking than a whm. The healing potency for time is nearly identical for basic spam abilities.

*snip*

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Your post pretty much nailed it Staris. It's all about quick reactions and taking advantage of the speediness of the job's skills. An already struggling/inefficient healer playing the job would only make it more apparent. Also the higher alpha heal on AoEs also makes up for the longer cast time.

On a dps side though, it's not even near to what a SCH dpsing most of the time would bring (since both healers was spamming heal as hell). You are comparing AST to WHM only but the thing is it affects SCH gameplay too, so actually when you do comparisons you should take in account the SCH too.

In this video no healers did actually dps except at the very begining of the fight like any healers compo would do anyway, and then they were only healing.

So the AST + SCH <<<<<<<< WHM + SCH just because what an AST AND a SCH had to do, the WHM ALONE can mostly do it by himself, with the sch/ast dpsing.

So yeah, you still can clear any content with AST. This is not the question (for me). What I want is to be able to take ANY healers compo and that it remains equal in any domain, even in the solo healing and dps part.

I think a WHM/AST with the AST dpsing most of the time can be better, except for obvious situations when Synastry is very powerful. That you use Ewer on yourself is more than ok, but using CO and spear just on you... I still don't agree. Ewer should be enough, and it's even truer in dps assumption since giving you more MP to dps more is not worth the dps you could give to the actual real dps you have in your team.

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Originally Posted by Kelya

On a dps side though, not even near to what a SCH dpsing most of the time wouould bring (since both healers was spamming heal as hell). You are comparing AST to WHM only but the thing is it affects SCH gameplay too, so actually when you do comparisons you should take in account
So y
I think a WHM/AST with the AST dpsing most of the time can be better, except for obvious situations when Synastry is very powerful. That you use Ewer on yourself is more than ok, but using CO and spear just on you... I still don\\\\\\\\\\'t agree. Ewer should be enough, and it\\\\\\\\\\'s even truer in dps assumption since giving you more MP to dps more is not worth the dps you could give to the actual real dps you have in your team.

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That\\\\\\'s just the way they did it. In my group our sch cleric stances 90 percent of the fight and did 500 dps. Nearly identical to our other group who had a whm instead of astro. While I dumped balance cards on the summoner on cool down.

Props to clearing, you clearly know how to play the class, unfortunately the video honestly highlights the fact that AST is simply not as well equipped as it should be. The AST only casted aspected helios 3 times, and i think 1 regular helios. That's really nothing throughout a aoe heavy fight like A1, the SCH was forced to do the majority of the aoe healing because honestly, if AST did any more, they would have been completely out of mana instead of being almost completely out at many points, like they were.

I also have to give huge props to your DPS and tanks because honestly neither healers were able to do much dps because of the healing strain put on the sch. While I'm not saying you are a bad astro, quite the opposite, it's just that it has become more and more clear that AST is simply inferior to the other 2 healers, and it needs to be remedied.

Psycho this is where you are wrong. The Healers did their jobs, the dps did theirs. the tanks theirs. THe astro supported its party with well timed buffs and heals. The thing about A1s is its not as aoe intensive as people make it out to be. THere are aoes yes. But you dont spam aoe heals, you Hot and wait ands pot heal as needed. The fairy alone has the ability to top off after HOT rolling its not as heal intensive as people complain. There are specific times AOE goes out, and there is specific times when tanks need top offs.They apparently knew when toheal and when not to.The cards helped push the dps, helped resource management, and the astro healed "efficiently"so did the sch. Neither carried the other THIS is how communication works. They are great heals in capable hands.. but TERRIBLE heals in the hand of players who are used to spamming medica. I will say it again. Astro are a spot heal/focus heal healer.

They have aoes. but only to SUPPLEMENT the other healers. They are not a whm. or a sch, they are an ASTRO.