A new tank stance to fit Dark Knight better

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Grit:
Reduces damage taken by 15%
Drains MP over time.
Does not reduce damage at all.

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So a tank buff that falls off if you run out of MP. Because that isn't fundamentally stupid.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Darkside
Increases damage done by 15%.
Drains HP over time.
Does not raise damage done to you, it just increases damage.

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Congratulations, you were just ignored by the game developers because they have emphatically stated time and time again that they WILL NOT MAKE A TANK THAT USES HP AS A RESOURCE. You are far too hung up on Dark Knight from the old games, and seem to completely fail at understanding what a Tank is in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I want Dark Knight to be a completely different tank from Paladin and Warrior.

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It already is quite a bit different, and ALL of my suggestions have not been seen on either of the two tanks already in the game... so I don't see where you think I am taking from either of the current tanks.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

So a tank buff that falls off if you run out of MP. Because that isn't fundamentally stupid.

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You are not getting what I am saying. It seems like you did not read Blood Weapon and Blood Price. I also don't really care what the developers said, most of them have gone back on their word several times already. I am not "hung up" on the idea, I think it just fits the theme, the lore and the story of the class. As long as you give it proper ways to greatly mitigate the price its fine.

10% of all damage received *heals* you. *Blood Price*
10% of all damage done heals you. *Blood Weapon*
10% of all damage received is converted to MP. *Blood Price*
10% of all damage done is converted to MP. *Blood Weapon*

All you have to do, is manage your MP and HP like EVERY other class in the game, which you seem like people incapable of doing because it is a little more complex. People are smart, not stupid. I don't believe you are stupid either.



While they are up, they completely counter the price and even offer increased healing if done and used correctly.

No, your suggestions will make the tank EXACTLY like the warrior, and WORSE. Warriors are stance dance tank that absorb their attacks with greater health. Exactly as you described, and they switch stances. They also have debuffs that reduce the mobs damage and buffs that heal them over time and restore health and TP. THAT IS A WARRIOR. If you want to play a warrior, be a warrior!

You copied and pretty much described exactly what a warrior is. I don't want Dark Knights to be a warrior!

Yes, if you do not manage your resources you will lose. That is a "VERY" unique concept to the game and honestly fun!

This means you will have to use your skills wisely!

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

More mindless drivel

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Yes, I saw both of those, but essentially, what you're doing is setting yourself up for periods of high and lows while tanking or while dpsing. You changed Blood Pride and Blood Weapon from buffs that could have better utility towards making the class both stronger and more survivable to abilities that are required to make the class survive at all. Should you misstep with either skill, should you fail to use them at precisely the right time, or should a boss enter a phase where he either doesn't damage you, or you can't damage him you lose out effectiveness on these buffs and essentially fall behind on your recovery. You're using buffs to make up for the inherent flaws on two other skills. This is just plain idiotic class design. You're giving the class a disability, a hinderance, which is not what a tank needs. And yes, you ARE hung up on old Dark Knights. The Dark Knight lore in this game is that they are the defenders of unjustly accused. They are the protectors of those who warrant no persecution from those that would abuse power. No where does it say that they have to hurt themselves in order to perform their functions. This is ONLY a theme seen in Dark Knights from previous installments of Final Fantasies AND a theme that the developers have stated that they would not use.

Further, none of these skill changes would be EXACTLY like a warrior. Warriors don't have a damage reduction skill that converts reduced damage to HP or MP. They don't have a damage up skill that converts damage done to HP or MP. The closest things they have is Bloodbath.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I also don't really care what the developers said, most of them have gone back on their word several times already.

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This right here is exactly why you will be ignored entirely anyways, so continuing to discuss this with you is entirely pointless, because I can be grateful that your suggestions will simply be tossed aside for more reasonable suggestions within the theme that the developers wished to stick to.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

Reply.

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It is called an Advanced Job for a reason. Also, you can choose not to use Darkside, thus negating the HP penalty entirely and getting rid of it if you want to just be a strong tank. Thus you don't need the sacrifice unless you want more damage.

It is not required to tank though, it would be a choice. A risk you can or can't take. The best Dark Knights would have it on constantly managing their temps and getting more out of it whilst the bad ones will not use it getting confused by the concept.

Dark Knight, if you remember. Cannot be played unless you have a level 50 and have played the game a significant amount of time and have done the story. So you have time to learn the mechanics before going into more advanced jobs.

Tanks already have to manage resources, that isn't uncommon. However most DPS do not, that is why they're are so many complaints because they are not used to suddenly having to manage your resources like tanks and healers.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

So a tank buff that falls off if you run out of MP. Because that isn't fundamentally stupid.

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If a healer runs out of MP, your dead. What is the difference? Are you saying healers are also poorly designed and need revamped? As a healer player as well. You must manage your MP and MP tools well or you will run out of mana and your group will die. This is the same concept.

The developers already put in a skill that sacrifices resources. On a "TANK" character. Darkside. They also have a class: "Warrior" which can also sacrifice their defenses to deal more damage, that is exactly the same thing as sacrificing life! Your sacrificing your defenses!

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

It is called an Advanced job for a reason. Also, you can choose not to use Darkside, thus negating the HP penalty entirely if you want to just be a strong tank. Thus you don't need the sacrifice unless you want more damage.

It is not required to tank though, it would be a choice.

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Choice, but ultimately out of the developer's intended theme, and a requirement because parties want all the damage they can get. Further, you don't take into account that Grit already triggers a Global Cooldown like Shield and Sword Oath, as well as breaks combos. So is the plan to also have it up during OT DPS phases, draining your MP AND HP while also ripping agro from your main tank because there's no reduction in your damage while Grit is up? That's pretty stupid. So drop Grit during OT phases? Well, gonna suck if you have to quickly return to being MT, and since it triggers a global cooldown, can't switch at the drop of the hat either. You say plan and anticipate things, but the global cooldown in this game is 2.5 second. That's a lot of time for a tank swap that quite likely just went wrong and since DRK doesn't have any skills that generate additional enmity that are off the GCD like Circle of Scorn, you're looking at losing agro again right away. It isn't like Defiance, which can just be thrown up then immediately followed by a Butcher's Block.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

Choice, but ultimately out of the developer's intended theme.

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I changed completely how one of the skill worked in my suggestion. I believe if I did change the skills you would have to be able to turn off Grit/and Turn off and on Darkside. So when your not tanking you should be able to turn off Grit to not drain your mana. Same with Darkside. Then when your tanking again you can turn it on and go to town.


It is completely different. I myself would get rid of the Global Cooldown, and remove the Mana Cost as well.












*SPOILER AHEAD, turn back and ignore if you have not completed the Dark Knight's story!*













I don't see what your saying. The Dark Knight story, if you have actually done it. Is all about sacrifice and gaining from it philosophically. That "IS" the theme of the class, and i'm sorry if you don't like it. The story is about love, emotions, sacrifice. Even the second ark of the story is about how the girl's father performed a ritual and left it with their daughter. The hateful mother she had killed because she would never stay or change, and the love between the two characters. If you talk to them after it they appear to be getting along well, and might even be lovers in the future. <3

That is the theme of the class. That is what Dark Knight's in the story are described as, and their philosophy. It is even joked by the girl that he seems to edgy about it.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I changed completely how one of the skill worked in my suggestion. I believe if I did change the skills you would have to be able to turn off Grit/and Turn off and on Darkside. So when your not tanking you should be able to turn off Grit to not drain your mana. Same with Darkside. Then when your tanking again you can turn it on and go to town.

I don't see what your saying. The Dark Knight story, if you have actually done it is all about sacrifice and gaining from it. That "IS" the theme of the class, and i'm sorry if you don't like it.

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Story, perhaps, but the already stated theme has been stated that it's a defender of those who are unjustly accused.

"Who, then, defends the feeble from the transgressions of those meant to guide and protect them?"

This still doesn't address the issue with the global. You're going to have to remove that entirely from Grit. Frankly, the effects that you are suggesting are still weak too. 15% of damage reduced? Laughable when you're talking about also having another toggle that drains your HP.

But to top everything off, you say you don't care what the developers want. You're like a child throwing a tantrum because you aren't getting your way because the adults actually know what's best.

Satisfied with my Purple Paladin.
No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

Story, perhaps, but the already stated theme has been stated that it's a defender of those who are unjustly accused.

"Who, then, defends the feeble from the transgressions of those meant to guide and protect them?"

This still doesn't address the issue with the global. You're going to have to remove that entirely from Grit. Frankly, the effects that you are suggesting are still weak too. 15% of damage reduced? Laughable when you're talking about also having another toggle that drains your HP.

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In concept that seems laughable however in if you combine it with the new Blood Weapon and Blood Price...

You will gain a large chunk more health over time then you will lose. You will gain a large chunk more MP over time then you will lose.

=IF= you use them correctly.

If you notice, 10% of all damage received is converted to HP on Blood Price as well as increased healing received. Its different, but it works.

Also, since you don't have reduced damage anymore. Soul Eater and Abyssal Drain will heal for more.

You are thinking too small, you need to look at the big picture.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

In concept that seems laughable however in if you combine it with the new Blood Weapon and Blood Price...

You will gain a large chunk more health over time then you will lose. You will gain a large chunk more MP over time then you will lose.

=IF= you use them correctly.

If you notice, 10% of all damage received is converted to HP on Blood Price as well as increased healing received. Its different, but it works.

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And you don't think you will take a ton of damage, or use a ton of MP during the 30 seconds that they are down? Or if you fail to make the full use of them in their duration, you go longer with the same problem. If you get stunned, you'll lose MP. If the boss goes invuln, you will lose HP. All things that can happen during these skills up time.