The rain does pour heavily during "Thunderstorms" (not to be confused with "Thunder", which is just lightning and thunder without any rain), and Thunderstorms are what you needed. The South Shroud doesn't experience "Showers" (only "Rain", which is calmer and lighter), so "Thunderstorms" is as good as it gets for downpours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunspec
And the sightseeing log entry you mentioned starts at 8 A.M., not 10. While not precisely at dawn (which is at 6 A.M for the game), 8 A.M. also happens to be one of the hours where the weather can change for a new period of time. It makes sense that they wouldn't risk having a window open for only 2 game hours (less than 6 real-life minutes).
This is just an example of things you get familiar with when you avoid just going through the log via a spoiler site. And that's what I liked about the old log - you learned the nuances and applied what you learned to the clues in order to solve them. Anyone just going through the sightseeing log with a spoiler site in one hand.. that's not the people this activity was aimed at.
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06-30-2015, 03:34 PMGyson
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07-01-2015, 12:01 AMNyaliaUmm. Your post doesn't make much sense to me. First of all, there are plenty of windows that are only open for ONE hour. The one in east than is a good example (the goobbue statue). Dawn isn't 8am. If the window went from 6am to 10am, then maybe you have a point, but that isn't the case. Also, if that were done, the window would cross two weather conditions and have a much greater chance of being doable to those working just off the clues. Rain is rain - why does one work and the other not? Both fit the clue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyson
I remember trying that one and giving up. I found the spot easy and was proud of myself. I was there during rain when the sun came up in game. It didn't work. I too was irritated when I finally looked at a spoiler to see that not one, but TWO parts of the clue were incorrect from the actual conditions. That's extremely disappointing.
If the log was more forgiving and everything was clued, it would be fun. It isn't. Here are some more examples:
003: "In a dank cavern that's never known the sun, the patter of the rain me only companion, I dropped to one knee and said me farewells to me ill-fated mates. They sing no songs for fishermen, but the sea swallows us all the same." - Strict three hour time window. Where's the clue for it?
005: "When the skies turn grey and spirits sag, I climb high and look upon roads blazed long ago. I turn my thoughts to the hardships of my forebears till mine own worries drift away, and I find strength to carry on." - This has a strict, four hour long time window. Where is the clue for it?
013: "To know the sylph, you must be the sylph. I may lack for wings, but a short climb will put me in a similar position. Lights dancing in the dark before me, I ponder what mischief I might make--er, were I a sylph, that is." - Strict weather requirement. Where is the clue for it? (this was worse when fair did not equal clear)
015: "Even the strings of the tightest purse loosen upon seeing my famed balancing act. From vaulted gardens I leap onto the eastmost streetlamp, then bask as dour, cloudy expressions break into smiles and a shower of gil." - The intended weather clue doesn't actually clue the weather when he did this, but it's just a word/expression thrown in the text which refers to something entirely different, which is not what the log is supposed to be, lorewise. Also, the only time clue here is the streetlamp, which I would expect to be lit when this window is active, but it isn't. The time window is during the afternoon.
017: "The fog was so thick you could cut it with a blade. My foot slipped, and in an eyeblink I was sprawled out on a cliff, the ruins of a buried city before me. Sadly, the stinging pain in my arse detracted somewhat from my enjoyment of the scenery." - This has a strict, four hour long time window. Where is the clue for it?
018: "Merciful are the rains that fall, for they give succor to the thirsting land, and comfort the old wounds of one who journeyed too far from home." - This has a very strict ONE hour (three minute) window. It is the smallest time window in the first set of 20. However, nothing in this clue clues a time, period. Worse, the weather change comes very shortly before the window opens, so before I was cheating, if I saw the weather conditions be right in the zone, I'd wander by and try. It wouldn't ever work. That's because by the time I noticed the weather and got to the spot, even if it was the right third of the day, the window would have closed before I made it there. I never rushed for it after seeing the weather turn correct because none of the others had such a tiny window. The shortest other window was three times as long.
Looking forward at this spoiler, there are six more windows that are only one Eorzean hour long. A few of them clue the time, but here are a few that don't:
030: "Nothing like feeling the cool breeze on your skin after a hot bath. The view's nothin' to sneeze at, either..." - Where's the time clue for this one-hour window?
072: "In the shadow of those unholy rocks, the mightiest giant will look as a dwarf. Yet from the right vantage point, even one of humble stature can look upon them all." - It could be said that the "shadow" comment is a time clue, but it really isn't. There are shadows during plenty of times that aren't this specific one-hour window.
080: "I was an adventurer meself, aye. Till that day when, from atop a tree, I saw that ungodly thing—that twisted mass of metal and scale. Ran from the lake as fast as my legs could carry. Reckoned I'd be safer livin' the rest of my days out of a bottle." - No time clue period. I guess you could say that "day" is a clue, but I wouldn't even call the time of the one-hour window "day" at all, and the vast majority of the day doesn't work.
So, yeah. I haven't looked up translations of the Japanese text, but I do strongly suspect that this wasn't deliberate on their part or a mistake made by the localization team. I think this was just honest miscommunication. The localization team was probably given the text blurbs to translate, and they did a great job making them sound interesting and flavorful. But, I highly doubt they were told what clues to include in their translations, and so important details were lost in the translation because good translations are very different from literal ones.
I think the best thing they can do to make the old ARR sightseeing logs fun for people like me (someone who loves discovering that stuff on her own, but loses interest when it doesn't work despite following the clues) is to make all time windows eight (Eorzean) hours long. Make them all coincide with the weather changes. Is the evening clued? Make it 16:00-0:00. Is the dawn clued? Make it 0:00-8:00. Is the afternoon clued? 8:00-16:00. Night is a bit tricky, but they could do either 16:00-8:00 and make it cross two weather windows, or they could do 20:00-4:00 and make it be eight hours like the others but with a weather change in the middle. Reduce the RNG aspect of the vague clues. Weather, location, general time of day, and emote are still needed, but those are generally much better clued in the text than specific hours. -
07-01-2015, 02:40 AMNyalia
Anyway! On topic! From the patch notes for this morning's hotfix:
So, there you go!Quote:
Originally Posted by NOC_NA
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07-01-2015, 01:59 PMWobble
Really wish they would remove the time/weather from ARR ones and then I would do them. I did the ones from 3.0 and had a nice time exploring but the hoop jumping for the original ones is not worth it for a minion.
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07-01-2015, 02:20 PMSummonerSenah
I liked puzzling out the riddles to find the location, time, weather, and emote, but at the same time it makes actually getting them more time consuming. I think I only ended up getting two.
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07-01-2015, 02:43 PMGunspecI was mistaken when I typed earlier, because I completed the log over 6 months ago. After double checking... yeah, "learning nuances" as you put it is still wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyson
Red Rooster Stead hint says "Dawn" = 5am-8am.
Buscarron's Druthers hint says "Dawn" = 8am-12pm.
You have to complete the Red Rooster log (07) to unlock the Buscarron's Druthers log (44). "Applying what I had learned" earlier, I waited for rain in South Shroud, got to the point at 5AM, and nothing happened. Even if it had been thunderstorms, I still would have missed it, because the weather changes at 8am.
The only explanation for the time difference is that "drunk people wake up late" as I joked with the other guy on this forum.
Without remembering the particulars, this was the 4th or 5th time I had an issue with a poorly written hint like this, and it was the breaking point after which I crossed referenced with websites before spending 30-40 minutes waiting for a weather/time opportunity to open up. I still read the hints, I consider where the location likely was, I scouted for a "vantage point" message, etc.
After wasting several hours to clues that were vague to the extent of inaccuracy, what sane person WOULDN'T double check that they have the right interpretation before committing 30 minutes to waiting at a vantage point?
I remember what I thought at the time was that, if the weather wasn't mentioned, the vantage point should work under ANY weather. If the time wasn't mentioned, the vantage point should work during ANY time window. That would allow nearly anyone to figure out the correct condition without investing an insane amount of time in trial and error, or resorting to simply asking someone else for the information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
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07-01-2015, 11:32 PMNyalia^ This would be cool! If this was the way it worked, I'd totally do the old logs without spoilers. As it stands, doing them with spoilers is pointless (except when being completionistic about minions), and doing them without spoilers is an exercise in frustration and annoyance, and it's decidedly unfun to me. I love clues, but find brute forcing boring. I feel that if the clues aren't sufficient to answer the riddle, then the riddle isn't worth answering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunspec
Someone else's trial and error is just as good as mine when it comes to something that's totally random. So, what's the point in me doing the trial and error at all when someone else has already done it? That's called re-inventing the wheel, and there's no benefit to it. ... I'm also the kind of woman who preferred those college professors who had open-book, open-internet tests, because if you could find the answer, why did it matter how you found it? Memorizing some bit of trivia and memorizing the URL of a website that contains that bit of trivia are identical in the real world in terms of usefulness. So it is with these logs - there's no difference, to me, between sitting at a point and trying out every weather/time combination when one or both are totally unclued (or, worse, anti-clued like the dawn thing) and looking up someone else's data gained from doing the same thing. There's nothing to "figure out" here, just data to gather to narrow down the search space until the solution is discovered.
But, with the new logs, there's none of that. A friend of mine and I realized we were missing some of the same 3.0 log entries last night, so we decided to collaborate and scoured the zones together. That was really fun! I got to see areas of the zone I wouldn't have seen otherwise, deduced with him how to anticipate the general area where a vantage point would be, and we burned through the missing ones. The only sad part was that I only have three zones unlocked for flying - I'm too distractable and haven't passed the level 55 part of the main story xD So, when I get more unlocked, we're going to do it again. Yes, the new logs are short, but they actually actively encourage what the original logs were meant to - they get you to see sights that you would have missed out on. These just let you do the exploring instead of hand-holding you through it by telling you just where to look, and then frustrating you when finding the viewpoint just isn't enough.