Midgardsormrs children question... (post-HW so thread may contain spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Is nidhogg stronger than vishap? I thought vishap was one of midgardsrmr's sons. A dragon's poser is usually commensurate with his age and Nidhogg is a smallfry compared to Vishap, i wonder why/how Nidhogg is stronger (gameplay wise Vishap has waaaaaaaay more HP, then again nidhogg was weakened by half for only having one eye, and further he was weakened by Estinien, but he is still a small wyrm compared to bahamut/vishap.

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Nidhogg is of Midgardsormr's First Brood.
The seven eggs came to Hydaelin at the same time. We don't know the order of hatching or if it happened at the same time.
It's unlikely, in my opinion, that their age would be that far apart to create much of a discrepancy of power (well power based on age anyway).

We have no evidence that Vishap was of that brood.
As far as we know, he's more likely to merely be Nidhogg's champion or something akin to a Dragon general.
So I'm pretty sure he's the underling here. They definitely would've made it more clear if he was one of the 7.

Nidhogg was definitely stronger, but had a lot going against him. See:

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Nidhogg was defeated by 12 soldiers who had consumed the power of one of the First Brood. Then, we fought him when he was surviving on borrowed power, and with his own actual power being used against him. Estinien dealt the killing blow by ripping out his borrowed power after we wore him down after his power was turned against him.

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Also, we don't really know much about the real Bahamut to say how good he is.
The primal we do meet is not the real Bahamut as said in multiple comments above.

The 7 children of Midgardsomnr:
http://i.imgur.com/Jth50m8.jpg

In it I can atleast see Nidhogg, Tiamat, Bahamut (though he kinda looks different), Hraesvalgr. Not sure which one is Ratatoskr, perhaps the dragon in the bottom? Afterall, Ratatoskr is named after as squirrel that sends messages between an eagle + nidhogg. Also, the "toskr" part refers to a tusk. So the bottom dragon does look abit like an eagle and those are probably tusks underneath her mouth.

Heres Tiamat:
http://i.imgur.com/3USX7rd.jpg

I believe Tioman is one of his children as well....I recall hearing as such in a quest breifly

That is six

Bahamut
Timata
Nidhogg
Hresvelgar
Ratasokr
Tioman

The seventh...do we know? (perhaps the dragon that was sealed in Azy La?

this again? No Tioman is NOT

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Originally Posted by myahele

The 7 children of Midgardsomnr:
http://i.imgur.com/Jth50m8.jpg

In it I can atleast see Nidhogg, Tiamat, Bahamut (though he kinda looks different), Hraesvalgr. Not sure which one is Ratatoskr, perhaps the dragon in the bottom? Afterall, Ratatoskr is named after as squirrel that sends messages between an eagle + nidhogg. Also, the "toskr" part refers to a tusk. So the bottom dragon does look abit like an eagle and those are probably tusks underneath her mouth.

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The bottom dragon doesn't have tusks, it has its mouth open and its tongue out.
The only image we have in game of Ratatoskr is some primitive artwork depicting a dragon with 4 forward facing horns. The only unknown dragon in the concept art matching that is the one to the right of Bahamut, so I'm pretty sure that's Ratatoskr.
If I had to guess who the other 2 are I'd say the yellow one is Shinryu and the Ixal-looking one is Quetzalcoatl (given the Aztec thing the Ixal have going on with their names, and the fact that the Allagans could've used DNA from that dragon to create them.)

http://i59.tinypic.com/a4s7qr.png

So looking at the picture and with the images of known dragons from Heavensward now, I think we can extrapolate the following:

Red (Centre) is clearly Midgardsormr
Orange (top left) is Hraesvelgr
Purple (second bottom) is Nidhogg
Pink (bottom) is Tiamat (the shape of the horns is distinctive)

Based on the Norse mythology the name of Ratatoskr has something to do with a tusk, and some pictures of the squirrel give a unicorn horn, so it is possible that the Dark Blue (top right) “Narwhal” dragon is Ratatoskr

As for Bahamut, I think he might be the Green?? If you consider the horns (which isthe major identifying factor in these images), and ignore the gold Allagan junk, Bahamut has backward sloping horns like the Yellow one, but he neither has the green colouring or the spiky neck-frill things or a long serpentine neck. The Light Blue one has the kind of stocky build and shorter neck as well as plain leathery wings, but the horns are completely different coming around the front of the face. And the Green one has got the backward horns, and shorter neck, but he looks a lot more feathery. That said, there is nothing to say that the image of Bahamut given us as the primal has anything to do with what he looked like as a living dragon.

So I think that the Yellow one is one of the unknown children and the Light or Dark Blue is the other unknown dragon.

And to summarise the known information of the First Brood:


Name: Midgardsormr
Gender: Male
Status: Alive
Notes: Father of the First Brood. Boss of Keeper of the Lake. Original body still wrapped around the Agrius. Form reborn first as a minion, then as a mount by aether drawn from Hydaelyn.
Attitude to Mankind: Benevolent, companion of WoL

Name: Hraesvelgr
Gender: Male
Status: Alive
Notes: Fell in love with an Elezen woman, Shiva, who he consumed (voluntarily) in order to bind them together forever and forge peace between people. Gave an eye to his brother Nidhogg, but had it returned by Wol/Estinien. Last seen delivering Ysyale to Azys La
Attitude to Mankind: Indifference? Not “fond” of humans, but any anger is tempered by Shiva’s influence.

Name: Nidhogg
Gender: Male
Status: Alive
Notes: Started a war with the Ishgardians in revenge for killing Ratatoskr. Lost both eyes to Prince Haldrath which were then used by the Ishgardians for different purposes. Boss of the Aery and killed by WoL/Estinien. Form reborn using his eyes and Estinien as a vessel.
Attitude to Mankind: Aggressive

Name: Ratatoskr
Gender: Female
Status: Deceased
Notes: Killed by King Thorodan & crew for her eyes
Attitude to Mankind: Unknown

Name: Bahamut
Gender: Male
Status: Deceased
Notes: Mate of Tiamat. Killed by Allagans while defending the dragon lands from being invaded.
Primal Version: The primal Bahamut was an imitation of the real thing summoned from Tiamat’s sorrow with help from Ascians. It was then captured and harnessed by Allagans with help from the Ascians before being sealed away and launched into the atmosphere to become the lesser moon Dalamud. Was returned to Eorzea by Nael van Darnus and defeated by WoL (stopping his physical regeneration and sending the primal force back into the void) inside the Binding Coils.
Attitude to Mankind: Original – no idea. Primal – Aggressive

Name: Tiamat
Gender: Female
Status: Alive
Notes:Mate of Bahamut. Currently bound by Allagan technology inside Azys La. Believes her entrapment is atonement for letting her emotions overcome reason to unleash the destructiveness of Primal Bahamut into the world. Only wishes to be left alone in her penitence.
Attitude to Mankind: Indifferent??. Angry at Allagans for what they did, but not really Aggressive.

Name: Unknown
Gender: Unknown
Status: Unknown
Attitude to Mankind: Unknown

Name: Unknown
Gender: Unknown
Status: Unknown
Attitude to Mankind: Unknown



Possible remaining Offspring
Based on Final Fantasy tradition: Shinryu
Based on Norse Mythology: Veðrfölnir



Other Named Dragons:
Tioman – Mate of Nidhogg, end boss of Sohm Al
Vishap – Enormous Dragon, boss of Steps of Faith. One of Nidhogg’s horde, possibly a General.
Twintania – Dragon bound inside Dalamud and found inside as boss of Binding Coil Turn #5.

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Originally Posted by Magnesium02

dragon lore

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Did you see the earlier commens, the ones just before you?
The one you marked as YELLOW is Tiamat, check the game and the picture again and you will see very cearly evidences. Mouth, horns, and scales behind the face.
The one you marked as PINK is the unknow dragon. It has to many inconsistentces with Tiamat on Hw.
And no if you watch Main Scenario, the primitive images of Ratatoskrshow show that she doesnt have enormous peak, she has 4 horns behind her face. On may opinion Ratatoskr would be the one you marked as LIGHT BLUE.
With the images of Bahamut, the one that most look like him is the one you markes as GREEN. Bahamut doesnt have 2 horns on that form.

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Originally Posted by Alise

I don't want Bahamut to be part of his family. Since I think they are so weak. By the lore, Bahamut alone destroy all of the warrior of lightning and any army in the war. (would all be dead if the gramp didn't turn into a pheonix). Then all of us could only win Bahamut in T13, only because we didn't fight his real body.

let's see Tiamat. well, he is just simple a weak 4-player DF that appear and die.

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You're confusing Tiamat with Tioman

Tiamat, Bahamut's Sister and Woman.... yes both. You encounter her at the end of the level 59 stuff.

Tioman, Nidhogg's Sexy Woman, you encounter in The 4 man dungeon of Sohm Al.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Did you see the earlier commens, the ones just before you?.

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No I didn’t. When I last saw this thread it was only up to post #22. I spent a while looking for images and lore on the dragons while writing that up.

The fact that the concept art has the Yellow dragon green in colour threw me off thinking it was Tiamat when in game she looks black/dark purple like the bottom one. But I will concede that the neck frills are similar.

And I either missed the in-game art of Ratatoskr or thought it was Nidhigg. If anyone has a screenshot of it, please post it. If she does has forward horns then she is the Light Blue.

Still not sure about Bahamut, just based on the feathery style horn of the Green one compared to his slim, arched tapered horns

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Originally Posted by Magnesium02

coment

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The thing of bahamut is very unsertain, we dont know how the real bahamut may look like. His primal close only is giving us vage suggestion. Is like tring to compare Shiva primal with the real shiva. Shiva wasnt a queen of ice with "sexy clothes", she was just a common person who fall in love of a dragon, just that, no special clothes, no rank, nothing, we even cant know if she was prety or not LOL. But yes, Iceheart and his heretics didnt have any picture of shiva, so I would guess that primal was their representation. But the time between bahamut's dead and the real bahamut was really short and we have Tiamat. So we could guess that the primal bahamut had some similarities with the real one. Thats why I choose Green.

You can check the Ishgardian picture of Ratatoskr yourself, check the launch trailer she is there too xD