Summoner gets no new pets in expansion

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Originally Posted by Dement

You say SE is lazy in regards to SMN but what do you want? You want SE to put in 7 times the work on SMN than it does on any other job?... you're right, they're pretty lazy.

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Short answer yes. I think they should. They did back in 2000, so why not now as well? The removal of specified "roles" for the pets would simplify this massively. They could each have rounded stats and abilities, some melee some ranged. I really don't see this being a huge feat to accomplish here. It requires a massive overhaul of the current job mechanics, but once the initial work is done they have all the groundwork laid out in front of them to easily implement similar coding for each pet.

I also really don't see how SMN would suddenly become OP and the most sought after job if they effectively maintained each pet's abilities to DPS roles, with the occasional PT buff thrown in to the mix. Nothing other classes don't currently offer to the table.

All in all I think people give WAY too much thought to the limitations and capabilities of job classes in MMO's (especially when it comes to addressing SMN). There will ALWAYS be certain jobs that are not as balanced as others, and become sought after / used more often. As long as SE does their best to even the playing field and make adjustments, anything is a viable option and nothing is going to break the game here.

The reason people like myself keep posting on this is because SMN has ALWAYS been a "Pokemon master" as you so bluntly put it... What they've done here is essentially given us a castrated and watered down version of Summoner in every other Final Fantasy game. It would be the equivalent of if White Mage only had Cure and no other healing / buffing abilties. That's not okay with us. We would like to see a well-rounded pet job class with flashy summon pets that follow us around in the field. Not floating chicken nuggets.

That would be effectively the same as glamor, which they are adding.

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Originally Posted by Svalitz

The reason people like myself keep posting on this is because SMN has ALWAYS been a "Pokemon master" as you so bluntly put it... What they've done here is essentially given us a castrated and watered down version of Summoner in every other Final Fantasy game. That's not okay with us. We would like to see a well-rounded pet job class with flashy summon pets that follow us around in the field. Not floating chicken nuggets.

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This is not true. FFXI is the only version of SMN where it's effectively a pet class.
The rest of series, it's isn't pet class.

Maybe if there wasn't like 4 threads on these arguments wouldn't be recycled.

Anyway, this is what I said in the other thread -

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

I only bring this up because it still always retained the idea that the summon was a big flashy burn moment, rather than a party member in themselves.
If they were persistent, that would be more akin to those monsters you collect in 13-2 to be the 3rd party member.
Them appearing replacing the party, being super flashy with a few moves and then disappearing still really sets them apart.

And the difference between that is relevant enough if they actually develop the Bahamut Trance to actually have you take on the form of a Primal eventually.
It already has the flashy ultimate type move. Then if the summon's form is taken, it would at least be replacing the SMN to add a big flashy burn phase.
That would be a much closer adaptation to an FF summon than anything the egi could be allowed to be.

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Don't get me wrong.
I agreed with some of your earlier posts.
The egis don't really live up to the summons.
But I don't really think summons should be pets in the first place.

You don't micro summons like you do pets. They take over.
The games from the main series (other than FF11) with summoner as a defined job gave them alternate traits so they could fill supplementary roles between summoning.
The Egis are here to stay but I don't think they're the Summon part that should be developed.

Summons should be a cinematic burn phase.
Summons should replace the character.
Summons should either do just an ultimate or give you an alternate moveset for that form (like a stance).
Ideally, they could call upon the form of different types of summons but that might be convoluted and they're probably just going to deal with Bahamut.

They should not exist all the time.
They should not be pets.
And they shouldn't be micro'd along your own moveset.

At least, if we're talking generally.
I wouldn't say SE has to change it now, just the emphasis should be into the Bahamut trance.
Which is clearly cinematic, emphasizes a burn moment and takes over the character (should take over more later as the Job progresses).

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Just gonna leave this here

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_Pact

If you take a look at the list of unique Pet abilities available to Summoner in XI, you'll see there's over 70! That is not even counting the Summoner job abiltiies and traits. Granted these were implemented over a decade, however my point is that they did not cheap out by using the same 3 pets and abiltites while "allowing you the option to change their looks"... OooOoooooooh. No, they were each unique and useful in their own ways.

No one complained that SE gave extra attention to SMN then, I don't see why it should be any different now.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

This is not true. FFXI is the only version of SMN where it's effectively a pet class.
The rest of series, it's isn't pet class.

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The problem here then is that they designed XIV's Summoner to BE a pet class. Or at least take on the basic functions of a pet class...however it's been neglected and poorly managed.


I'm all for the idea of utilizing big flashy 1-hit moves where a primal jumps out and rails on the enemy then disappears, that would be a massively better step forward and relate to previous Summoner types and honestly make me much happier.

IF they take that direction great! However at this time, the 1/2 second Bahamut head that pops up behind you when you use that ability seems like a minor fix to a bigger problem. I can't say much on this subject because I haven't seen it in action yet, so I'll have to wait and find out.

The ability to turn in to a small primal would be incredible (Lady Iceheart managed it)

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Summons should be a cinematic burn phase.
Summons should replace the character.
Summons should either do just an ultimate or give you an alternate moveset for that form (like a stance).
They should not exist all the time.
They should not be pets.
And they shouldn't be micro'd along your own moveset.

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I agree completely with the bottom half of your post, and would love to see them implement THAT as a Summoner job's main focus. However at this time it is not, and that is why I remain vocal about it, in hopes that it will someday change.

The community being complacent, growing tired of SMM discussion or bashing people like me is not going to encourage SE to make any changes. That was the main point I am trying to make here. We need to unite as a community and send SE the message that Summoner is not where it should be.

Traditionally the Summoner summoned the primal for 50-90s which had six different skills plus the ultimate and replaced the entire party. In an MMOS setting a traditional Summoner would have the primal replace the player character for 90s.

Let me sum up FFXI's Summoner.

Summon -> Blood Pact -> Release -> Wait for 1 minute recast timer -> Repeat

Blood Pact damage was roughly equal to other jobs WS's. Unfortunately for Summoner, those other jobs could do 2-3 weapon skills per minute and had significantly higher auto-attack damage and frequency than any summon could hope to reach.

That was FFXI's Summoner for well over a decade. And it absolutely does not work with how this game is designed to be played. And the game isn't going to be redesigned so a vocal minority can get their jollies off on FFXI nostalgia.

At least get it right. XI SMNs stopped doing that years ago, starting at least 3 expansions ago at Aht Urgan, along with main heal only. TP had a significant impact on Blood Pacts and any SMN worth their salt built up Avatar TP.

Uhhh, unless you had a Nirvana? No. You didn't get to do much endgame outside of Pet Job Only LS's. Well, until Alexander happened. Then you got to cast Alexander and you were swapped with another vastly superior damage dealing job was brought in to actually kill stuff efficiently.

I played until right after Voidwatch was released. I had numerous friends who wanted to main SMN who were depressed with how poor the job performed compared to every other damage dealing job. Including PUP and BST.