I feel like I've won a battle

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Originally Posted by Akiza

You've won the battle now the Summoner population will be completely dead in 3.0 and they will main Black Mages since they are clearly better than Summoner in every way.

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Not sure if complaining....but it appears that what SE has done is half way to what you've been spouting for a few months, on what changes SMN needs.

Primal Synergy and AOE/Single Target Burst, which is in the essence of the Dreadwyrm Trance.
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If they had changed the Poison aspect of SMN to a form of Elemental DOT system then it would have been exactly what you were asking for.

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I'm pretty excited for the changes TBH. They didn't change the basic fundamental playstyle of SMN, but just added an additional layer of variety.

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

People, this is Final Fantasy XIV's Summoner. It's a dot-casting-pet job. It's an Arcanist with Fester. It's not Yuna. Isn't each Final Fantasy a chance to explore how jobs areimplemented and interact with one another? Disgruntled Summoner Mains, this is 14's Summoner. It's not inadequate. It's fun, it's distinct from all the other DPS jobs. This game needs this Summoner, not a second Black Mage to compete with other DPS in downing adds. I don't mean to revel in other's misfortune but quite a few of you campaigned to take away something that quite a few of us enjoyed. Not cool.

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Hallelujah!

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

There is no winning or losing.

This is the same kind of philosophy that is screwing over voting ("the dems BEAT the gop woooooo").

For most people they probably like certain parts and they dislike certain parts of the class.

So maybe you like more parts than most, or whatever.

We "win" when the class is a "fun", competitive dps class. Fun is obviously subjective but dps is not.

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This is where I feel the divide comes in. Competitive DPS. As a casual this just doesn't hold any sway over me. In a battle, I'm not there to compete with others. If the job I'm using has lower DPS than all the others, then that's ok. One of the arguments against the current Summoner was that the "ramp up" time in casting dots was a problem. In phases where "adds needed to go down fast," a Summoner was said to be "unable to contribute much," and a "black mage would be better suited for that spot." From my perspective it's, "as long as the adds go down..." I am aware this is an issue - in PvP where I have to "race" other DPS in downing Drones, I see Summoner's inadequacies. But this isn't enough for me ask for a rework of the job. It is enough for raiders and the like to ask for a rework. There are probably other issues with the job, but I don't know, I don't see the job through the eyes of a raider. I'm just happy the job maintained its dot/pet style with the focus remaining on the owner.

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

YES

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Indeed! The job design in itself is not a trainwreck like so many complainers make it out to seem. No it doesn't summon massive huge monsters to cast one spell and disappear, this version of SMN doesn't need to. The egi, while aesthetics can be debated all century, do for the most part what needs to be done. They fight alongside of you. You summon them to help you out. Non-sense like 'Oh pets only do 1/3 of your dmg, why bother? completely pointless' drives me insane........I'm sorry, what? Without your pet, you do as much if not LESS than a tank's dps. With your pet on Sic, a basic SMN can still do decent dps without causing too much alarm. A Summoner knowing not only how to use your pet and how to manage your dots/abilities, can be top dps easily so long as your MP doesn't run dry from too much Res'ing/Death/ReSummoning. The egis are def needed for a Summoner's dps.

The actual useful feed back is being addressed and while there are things that could be added to make things better this still is a step in a good direction. Theres more that could be addressed but if there would be more feedback to improve summoner and not to completely change it to a FF11/BLM2.0, we might see improvements faster lol

>>>Massive complaints about TriDisaster, Getting quicker and more bursty methods of AoE dmg/DMG in general that is not more dots.
>>>MP problems (addressed with the Ruin I/II adjustment, as spamming ruin II used to drain your MP sooo fast.)
>>>Less ruin spam and more methods of damage that is not filler. (Which I think is what Yoshi P was trying to get at in the video with the time example of how it takes us 30 seconds to apply dots and then we are waiting 30 seconds for Aetherflow to come off CD)

The only thing I wish is more abilities/interaction with our Egis to set them further apart from each other so its more than just (Ranged Dmg+Contagion) vs (Stronger Melee Dmg). Adding more egis would have just make them blend in even more and Garuda/Iffy could have both ignored for one of the newer ones. Now these a chance to make them stand out from each other if they get more abilities.

Plus Egi skins. <3 Shiva + Leviathan Skin for Iffy and Garuda would make my life. Mog skins too. Beat bitches with more pom poms lol.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

But it is a new ability if its called Tri Bind, isn't it?

Since the name was the only thing wrong with Tri Disaster that infers that Tri Bind will function in accordance with its new name and bind three targets in order to make it semantically correct.

I'm guessing its going to be super useful!

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That would be a nerf if was restricted to binding just three targets.

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Originally Posted by SirDiscoFrog

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Agreed. I'd like more interaction with the pet, too. But not to the point where the pet is doing all the work like in 11. I still want to maintain applying dots and ruin spamming. That's what I like about the job. And maybe some more opportunities for the pet to be an integral part of the fight like in T5.

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Originally Posted by Natsuno

I am a little disappointed with not even one new egi, but I can understand their reasoning and the above makes up for it. We'll just have to see how it all plays out at level 60. :)

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Hey at least you have 3 Egi's, us white mages only get one water spell.

There is, so much about the smn additions I am so ok with. I I didn't choose to play summoner just because it was summoner. I played it cause I really like the way the job plays, and can't wait to try out the new additions. No new egi? Ow well. Was probably gonna just ignore it in favor of Garuda anyway lol.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Not sure if complaining....but it appears that what SE has done is half way to what you've been spouting for a few months, on what changes SMN needs.

Primal Synergy and AOE/Single Target Burst, which is in the essence of the Dreadwyrm Trance.
--------------------------------

If they had changed the Poison aspect of SMN to a form of Elemental DOT system then it would have been exactly what you were asking for.

--------------------------------

I'm pretty excited for the changes TBH. They didn't change the basic fundamental playstyle of SMN, but just added an additional layer of variety.



Hallelujah!

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I spoke to soon Dreadwyrm Trance does give Summoner what it needs direct damage spells and more reliable bursts. If anything I won since SE acknowledge we had core problems with the job where lack of bursts and competitive dps when compared to other dps jobs.

This job doesn't deserve the Summoner name, no matter how fun it is, or isn't.

I admit, I was upset at first, like most people, that we aren't getting new egis; I want my Shiva, :'(. But I have mulled over all of the new info and I am okay with it. Akh Morn is essentially the way summoners have acted in the past: summoning the summon, them doing a big attack and then, disappearing. The only thing I hope they do, or have done, is allow for more diverse summon attacks over Akh Morn, like Minstrel Song, or other primal attacks. Plus I can't wait to see what changes they made to the pets. Hopefully they make them all equally useful, like a melee and caster single target and aoe pet, this way we are encouraged to switch every so often. Plus I wont mind the glamour system, which I hope (it better, lol) come out for 3.1. I like Garuda, but I'm a little tired of looking at her, lol.