A simple fix to PVP Queue times

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

tl;dr : I completely agree that FFXIV does not have the right type of playerbase to ever make PvP popular. Many people playing this game grew up on single-player fantasy experiences, not shooting each other in CoD. A very vocal minority won't change the fact that queues wouldn't need fixing, if the interest was just there at all.

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CoD (and competitive multiplayer online games in general) did not even exist during these times. It has nothing to do with the playerbase at all.


Look, I think the main reason PvP is so polarizing in MMOs is because none of the skills you learned in PvE carry over. Healers don't have to run for their lives every second of a dungeon. Black Mages never thought they'd be using sleep so much. The enemies you attack run into the tank's face and you kill them, they don't sprint in circles and run behind walls and CC you for 20 seconds at a time before one-shotting you.

It's just too contrasting of an experience. So in that sense, until SE finds a way to actually incentivize PvE players to queue for the content it offers, i dont think it'll be popular. They'd have to add a mode where you do more than simply kill players.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

PvP has been implemented very poorly in this game from every aspect. Wolve's Den had restrictions, gave terrible rewards and had tons of exploiters. Frontlines had GC restrictions which did nothing but increase the queue times and not allow people to play with friends, thereby making players less interested.

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I can level with you. The restrictions suck. But the restrictions being spoken of that apply to Wolves' Den were not there at its inception. They were put there literally because they had to be put there, for balancing in an already unbalanced aspect of the game.

1PLD +2DRG = multiple stun locking on healers/other DPS to allow quick dismantling of teams. INSANELY quick.

Any + 2BLM = same deal, except with sleep.

Stacking SMN = Baned DoTs + Tri-disasters everywhere.

Monks with lots of Morale? Watch your HP go bye-bye.

It was literally impossible to beat some of these set-ups for random teams. Anyone who coordinated a premade already had a clear advanatge which was exponentially compounded by the lack of restrictions to the 2DPS you could bring. Getting completely owned with no chance of survival drove more people, who might have given it a chance, away when they felt like they had no control over the match.

Just for the record, the only incentive I ever needed to PvP was the satisfaction I get from beating other players. I don't buy any of the outfits or gear any longer. I did when Morale was a thing, but only because they made gear a competitive edge in PvP. That is something that shouldn't ever be done, because people without the Morale gear had no chance of beating a team who did. I didn't grind out 200 FL wins for that mount because there are things I would rather do that don't take an hour each time I want to do them. The fact that the majority of players in the game need some kind of incentive to PvP, only proves what I've been trying to say this whole time....


There just isn't enough interest in the FFXIV community to ever make PvP relevant, no matter how much I would love for it to be so ;-;

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

Just for the record, the only incentive I ever needed to PvP was the satisfaction I get from beating other players. I don't buy any of the outfits or gear any longer.

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lol most players aren't as hardcore as you though Jay, they don't want to do shit unless there is incentive. I get what you're saying but it wouldn't hurt to drop some restrictions and increase the rewards so it doesn't take hundreds of hours to get anything cool, and see what happens. SE already has the systems in place to do both of those things, it's just a matter of changing them.

Nothing is going to happen until 3.0 now I'm sure but since they plan to continue developing pvp content they should reflect on the poor implementation they had the first time.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

I get what you're saying but it wouldn't hurt to drop some restrictions and increase the rewards so it doesn't take hundreds of hours to get anything cool, and see what happens. SE already has the systems in place to do both of those things, it's just a matter of changing them.

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Yeah, I can agree with this. I think most of us in this thread are looking for the same thing: PvP to actually be a thing lol. I guess my pessimistic side clouds my judgement.

We do need some change, and anything would be better than what is in place currently. I've always tried to view things with the purpose of seeing what's wrong with the idea in order for it to be altered to take that into effect. If anything at all could be done to inject some life into PvP, I'm for those changes.

Even though I stated what I felt was wrong with PvP queues with OP, I was among the 2 people that gave him a like lol. At least he is trying.

Removing the GC restriction won't resolve all of the issues Frontlines has for good.
It's just a small fix for occasional "PvP saturday nights" some FC could do, but it won't drive more people in.

What PvP need is a constant flow of players, mostly soloqueuing, in order to establish a solid PvP playerbase.

You won't get that simply by removing GC restriction (and destroying all of the lore attached to Carteneau at the same time).

The problem comes from the amount of time needed to be put into PvP to get anything of value, and that the rewards themselves are quite meh, besides a few set or armor made for glamour.
It's just like the Tank mount which was added to the game to make people play Tank more. It just didn't work at all, because the reward itself isn't -that- amazing and the process of getting it is way too grindy and boring. Exactly like PvP rewards.

Just look at the PvP Roulette. There is absolutly zero PvP rewards for doing that Roulette... just a bunch of tomestones. That's super lame, and with the current waiting time, nobody wan't to to it at least once a day.

GC restriction clearly isn't the core of the problem. It's just the tip of the iceberg that everyone sees because it's obvious.
Even if you remove it and can now "play with your friends", there will still be nothing but a grind waiting for you. You'll do half a dozen PvP games and then most of you will be done with it, going back to 30+ queues time.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Removing the GC restriction won't resolve all of the issues Frontlines has for good.
It's just a small fix for occasional "PvP saturday nights" some FC could do, but it won't drive more people in.

What PvP need is a constant flow of players, mostly soloqueuing, in order to establish a solid PvP playerbase.

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The problem with GC restrictions is that it inhibits the queue times for solo queues as well though. Say you have 60 flames, 30 maelstrom, and 15 adders queued up. If there was no GC restriction the queue would pop, but because there is a restriction everybody waits and the additional flames who queued last wait even longer. People will eventually withdraw because the queue is taking so long and then you're back to square one.

I agree that it only fixes part of the problem because there still isn't a lot of incentive in terms of rewards from pvp. Grind hundreds of hours, get some really cool glamour gear (if you happen to even play a job with cool gear, some of it is terrible) and maybe a mount or two.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

The problem with GC restrictions is that it inhibits the queue times for solo queues as well though. Say you have 60 flames, 30 maelstrom, and 15 adders queued up. If there was no GC restriction the queue would pop, but because there is a restriction everybody waits and the additional flames who queued last wait even longer. People will eventually withdraw because the queue is taking so long and then you're back to square one.

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That's correct and is a bigger problem than "I can't queue with my friends".

In the end, it all comes down to the number of people queuing and the repartition between GCs.

If you look at the lasted stats given by SE, all 3 company were fairly well populated, with only the Maelstorm being a bit behind.
So, even if a situation like the one you described would happen, it would probably be temporary (I mean, I don't see why the members of a certain CG wouldn't be less inclined to PvP than others).

Again, even if a GC has less player than the others, with a healthy PvP playerbase, this problem would not be as important as it sounds like.

PvP needs better rewards. Better incentive to be played.
Just look at The Hunt. It's crappy content, not interesting, not challenging, full of bad behaviors and so on... but people are still doing it. Why? Because the rewards are awesome, which overcomes the badness that is Hunting.

It's quite simple, really. SE just need to give a reason for people to want to go in PvP frequently beyond of the "PvP itself", and most issues will be solved that way.
After that, we can then think about getting more maps, more modes and finally getting rid of GC restriction while trying to keep the lore intact.

As to pvp not popular, I had a friend today wait 2hrs for low level rouletteeanwhile I popped 3 frontlines. GC restriction is the main problem, a lot of people unwilling to try this out solo. I've introduced PvP to various friends who have switched GC to try it out and have loved it, the que system is also a major issue with 0 info of how many per gc there are queing plus its brokenness, you can get trapped in a que of let's say 8/8/4 seeking but if a spot is clear in a fl going on already you will not fill that spot, instead you have to reque to get this

Rewards as well are pretty stupid, in a game that basically allows you to 1-50 in a day with ridiculous xp rewards from challenge log or leves or daily roulette bonus, it seems pvp doesnt have an real help. Its taken me 4 months of pvping to finally reach rank 38, but so glad o reached this

I wish instead of Wolf's Den or Frontlines and all the effort put into it, they had given us a simple PVP duel system. Just a simple "Hey! I challenge you!" would have been great, would have scratched the pvp itch some folks have, and would have freed resources up that are now tied to the whole PVP mess.

Last night: 34minute wait for my first match. 13 minutes for my second.

That was on a Friday night which is the second busiest PvP night each week. (Sat is first)