Marking Targets

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Originally Posted by shape

Can people stop with paladin doesn't generate enough threat on lower level dungeons. If this was true why have i never had any problems. If your paladin is losing threat its because, 1 there not using flash multiple times on pulls with more then 1 mob, flash really is under rated, its affected by attack power so combo it with fight of flight, mobs stick to you like glue when you do this.

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I guess I could have been a bit clearer on my statement. While I still say pld has awful aggro generation, doesn't mean we can't keep anything. I didn't have problems, but I also realized why we had a large mana pool and a way to fill it fast early on. What I had meant was that we can't do a 2 or 3 flash and do single target hate for most party make-ups. The moment you start throwing out dots or aoe, you have to flash a lot. A war, on the other hand, can throw out 3 OP pre-defiance and single target without worry.

why turn this thread into a pld cant hold hate thread... this thread has nothing to do with holding hate at all.

op asked if we should mark or not... not that we need another one of these threads either mind, but I will answer none the less.

marking is for when something really has to die, nothing more as far as I'm concerned.

learn to tank without it and it makes your job easier, you shouldn't be focusing on only one enemy in front of you as tank its your responsibility to be thinking about them all and what is the best way to achieve that and still be good for the next pull. with that said if that is marking for you that's great but since you cant rely on anyone following those marks best be prepared.


however as dps if I think the tank is struggling on a pull i might mark for them, usually only if their new mind. but this is pretty rare as I believe that the best way to get better at tanking is to go in and just grab everything and let the dps do whatever they want and learn to control the flow in those circumstances.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

I guess I could have been a bit clearer on my statement. While I still say pld has awful aggro generation, doesn't mean we can't keep anything. I didn't have problems, but I also realized why we had a large mana pool and a way to fill it fast early on. What I had meant was that we can't do a 2 or 3 flash and do single target hate for most party make-ups. The moment you start throwing out dots or aoe, you have to flash a lot. A war, on the other hand, can throw out 3 OP pre-defiance and single target without worry.

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Pretty much this. I played all day today capping poetics and finishing my books, and I've really gotten sick of how often I have to use flash then the riot blade combo. It'll probably get a lot easier when I've got better gear, but in the meanwhile, I'm chugging mana pots like a drunkard to keep up with good dps,

I've only had to worry about marking things in sub-level 50 content anymore. At 50, DPS generally seem to follow the list brought up earlier.
Shield Lobbed target first -> Biggest / aoe dropping target next -> another aoe dropper? -> stragglers
Assuming they're doing single target damage.
I HAVE had to worry about marking things when in-progress ques shove me into no-tank no-healer runs because things dying in a pretty specific order help the party progress while the other role fills back up. This became especially common as of Zodiac dungeon runs.

This being my first MMO altogether, I wasn't at all used to the tanking mindset, even if I knew the base concept of tank-healer-damager-(support). Plus I did a bit of forum reading once I realized my class was a tank :p So I knew what my purpose in the group was. But the first dungeons I did, as well as when doing any dungeon the first time, I didn't mind saying it was my first time there, and if any of the more experienced players could help out it'd be awesome. I think first Sastasha run I did together with my flatmate, the other DPS took the lead and 'pointed the way' where I should go, plus marked important enemies.

A bit later on, when I was comfortable enough even my first time in a place to run ahead, I'd still ask (if I saw level-synched people or just generally people who appeared to know the dungeon) if there were any enemies that should be killed first and if so which ones and/or 'could you mark them for me? =D'

Nowadays, I only mark targets if I have newcomers or if there are enemies that should be killed first that I know people tend to ignore. Otherwise, I do my AoE aggro things, and then hit on the mob that takes the most damage :p Or tab between them or continue AoE aggro if I have AoE-happy DPS. It's usually easier for me to switch to the mob the dps are focused on than to stick to my mob and then rant at dps for not switching target ^^; (But then again, I have more the mindset that I'm there to support the group by protecting them, not to lead them and force them to play My Way. I'm also usually one of the first to volunteer for OT duties in 8-24-ppl stuff, and actually grab adds instead of poking the boss in the side :p Gotta protect the squishies, no?)

it is faster w/o mark, imo. You don't need to be "perfect" in tank & spank in normal dungeon. Aoe aggro all mobs and keep em at bay and let the dps do w/e they want as long as the mobs die. In worst scenario tanker will loss aggro on 1 mob and it die 5 sec after <--- I don't see it as a big deal, however I'v had healer complain about this.

Its a good habit to have.

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

When people talk about PLD having trouble with emnity generation during lower levels, they are referring to the small window between lvl 30 and lvl 40. Most DPS classes are geeting big portions of their rotations during this time, but Paladin does not get shield oath until lvl 40. Depending on both the tanks personal skill and the DPS/Healer skill levels, some Paladins experience difficulty holding hate against 3 enemies (or more) at a time. This was especially true before the emnity buff to flash a few patches back. Since that buff, it has become a lot less of an issue. Once PLD gets shield oath at 40, it all becomes EZ mode again.

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Paladin was never hard. Honestly Marauder has more issues between 26 and 30 than Paladins do ever. We get RoH at 26 which is our 3 step enmity generator. This helps until we hit 40. Flash is useful yes but too many paladins make it the end all. Also speed pulls at 30-40 just don't make sense.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

We don't even get a proper tank stance until 40, by which time dps have already gotten hard hitting skills.

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I really hope SE changes Sword and Shield Oath places when expansion comes to help new lowbie PLD's while also adding enmity removal to SwO to make OT:ing more enjoyable(unless they give us proper OT combo), its still boggles me why PLD gets DPS stance before tanking stance.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

while also adding enmity removal to SwO to make OT:ing more enjoyable

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This would remove MTing in SwO completely and it wouldn't actually change anything, you should basically be spamming RoH after a courtesy Fracture + RB anyway.