WHM - Cure III vs. Medica

Overhealing generates the same amount of enmity as normal healing (0.5 x healing value).

Whoever set the "if everybody's stacked = Cure III" guideline is absolutely wrong.
The guideline should be "if everybody's stacked + (additional raid damage is coming soon OR by some miracle you actually have Overcure proc active) = Cure III" otherwise you Medica or Medica II.

P/S : Cure III should also be used if you're so far from the group that Medica II is out of range and you are forced to stay away from the group due to certain mechanics (Bonus points for figuring out what is the ONE fight that fits the above description).

Slightly off topic for a question of my own, anybody else that completely ignore the use of Medica in favor of Medica II in a raid environment? (AKA with tanks that are worth their salt AKA able to grab add aggro even with Medica II's regen ticking).

I find that for an additional 80 MP (IIRC), Medica II is so much more worth it, even if Medica is sufficient to top everybody up, please remember there's still one member who is constantly taking damage - the Main Tank, with Medica II + Regen ticking, I'll hazard guess that you'll actually save mana by requiring less Cures during this time frame.

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

[A]nybody else that completely ignore the use of Medica in favor of Medica II in a raid environment? (AKA with tanks that are worth their salt AKA able to grab add aggro even with Medica II's regen ticking).

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Yes. Especially fights where damage is like this:
Tank -> tank -> tank -> tank -> raid -> tank -> tank -> tank -> tank... etc.

No real reason to use Medica unless there is follow-up damage soon or you're prepping against someone taking a mechanic/avoidable damage to the face. (This excludes situations where Medica > Medica II I.E. Titan HM)

As for Medica vs. Medica II vs. Cure III, there are so many different scenarios in which you'd use one over the other. Often I find myself using Cure III during mechanics that require people to stack to divide damage and/or multiple people who are clumped together all need Cure IIIs ASAP.

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Slightly off topic for a question of my own, anybody else that completely ignore the use of Medica in favor of Medica II in a raid environment? (AKA with tanks that are worth their salt AKA able to grab add aggro even with Medica II's regen ticking).

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Medica II is like my go to spell in raids. Especially when there's a lot of AoE/Raid damage. In ST I can generally throw out a Medica II and continue to DPS even after a raid wide AoE comes out because of the regen. I'm also obsessed with using Divine Seal before casting it. I love it during all the bosses in ST because you never know who is gong to take damage from all the AoEs flying around as well. It's just, in my opinion, the best spell a WHM has in raids.

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Whoever set the "if everybody's stacked = Cure III" guideline is absolutely wrong.
The guideline should be "if everybody's stacked + (additional raid damage is coming soon OR by some miracle you actually have Overcure proc active) = Cure III" otherwise you Medica or Medica II.

I find that for an additional 80 MP (IIRC), Medica II is so much more worth it, even if Medica is sufficient to top everybody up, please remember there's still one member who is constantly taking damage - the Main Tank, with Medica II + Regen ticking, I'll hazard guess that you'll actually save mana by requiring less Cures during this time frame.

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Saving mana versus over curing is a hard line to walk.I don't agree that medica II with the overhealing if the initial strike is fine. I only medica II IF and only IF the ticks will get a benefit or if it's for a hate mechanic (white mage pulling blue golem in t9). Overhealing is a big deal that you have to watch out for, use a medica I where it's proper, use a medica II where it's proper. If people are stacked, about to take massive damage (2 hr on primals) cure II can be far more mp efficient, because one heal can do the work of two or three. It's all using the right tool for the right job, you don't got hitting a fly with a rocket launcher, you use a fly swatter.
I also argue that a tank should not be tested on their worth because you as a healer decide to cure bomb in a way that is meant to pull hate. It's all about using the right tool for the job, if one cure III heals everyone up to full without over curing, or worrying about having the proc, use that. If you are taking sustained damage over time, or will be, use medica 2, if you take a large chunk of raid wide damage that can be healed with a single medica 1? use medica 1.

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Originally Posted by Whiston

This stood out to me. Obviously over healing contributes to your enmity, however I have never heard of a modifier for that healed value.
Do you have a source or any conclusive evidence indicating your enmity in fact doubles on overhealing?

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Originally a bit of info I got from a raid leader which I didn't question. Since it seems this is incorrect, I've edited my post to remove that part. But, all the same, WHMs can easily race tanks for enmity-- watch that overhealing!

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

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Ifrit EX is usually the only time I use a remote casted Cure III, yep.

I can't really agree with this post. While I do love HoTs and have had party members comment "Regen all the things!" when I'm in the party... There are definitely times when Cure III is appropriate and more efficient than Medica or Medica II. T9 after megaflare (pre nerf, not sure how it is now), though you'd want M2 ticking for that as well. Titan EX's jump when ilvls weren't so high (might still be, haven't done TEX for a while). As for M2 vs Medica... again, HoTs are really awesome, but medica does have the higher potency direct heal for less MP. If M2's already ticking and you need a direct area heal, but cure III is too short ranged or too strong, there's a good case for Medica.

Of course, if everyone's only a 300 hp below max and medica II is ticking, that's not one of those cases. 3000 might be, though.

Medica 2 actually heals more than Cure 3 in total (initial heal + the ticks). Each time you're looking for the heal with the highest value to use, it should be Medica 2 and not Cure 3, unless you can't afford waiting 30s to top ppl. If the damages are very inferior to Medica 2 but still superior to Medica, you will be overhealing for the last ticks but it's still efficient on the MP side (better than Medica x 2 and better than Cure 3), not to add ppl are spread most of the time.

When you're in the situation where you can choose between Medica 2 and Cure 3 (ppl are stacked), the question is more about : do you want to save some MP while overhealing more or not ? This is dependent from the damages values, the mechanics of the fight (next raid attack in less than 30s or not) and what notion of MP management / overhealing every healers have.

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Originally Posted by Kelya

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Well, yeah. If time wasn't an issue we could all use nothing but regen and M2, aside from their great total potency they have the best efficiency.

I'm slightly confused by a few posters above,

You guys do realize Cure III offers less potency and higher MP cost compared to Medica II right?
Why are some of you saying Cure III is more MP efficient that Medica II? The only reason Cure III should be used is if additional raid damage is coming (AKA only in FCOB and maybe SSCOB) after the initial hit.

Regarding the "please don't test your tank's worth comment", it doesn't really matter if Medica II is ticking or not, if the OT is slacking, the healer WILL get the aggro, in FCOB, you can't really twiddle your thumbs for a few seconds and wait for the OT to establish add aggro (hint : the damage on MT is massive), so regardless of Medica II ticks + MT healing aggro generation, or just MT healing generation, the OT must be good enough to establish snap aggro.

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Why are some of you saying Cure III is more MP efficient that Medica II?

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I think the point is.... HoTs are most MP efficient, but waiting for them to tick up people from low health usually isn't something we can do? Cure III is reasonably MP efficient and very time efficient at getting an 8-person raid back up from low health. And... correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it is more MP efficient than medica I..? Or, if we have 2 GCDs to spare, is 2x Medica better than Cure III?